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Commander Keen
21-01-2006, 16:50
I was just playing your "Objective Pearl" map and i have a few things to say about it.

First off... Red spawn area: http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/9416/objectivepearl5mj.jpg As you can see there are placed 7x2 p40's right on the spawn area, and this is resulting in alot of spawn deaths! Also if you spawn in a bomber infront of them you lose your tail and if you spawn behind then you lose your wing if you try and get between them.
And the planes placed right in the exits of the spawn area is quite annoying, but not more than you can just taxi around them.

Next, red dosent have any targets, and i can sort of see where the creater wanter to go with this. BUT... Because of how the game is it dosent work correctly, blue team are not trying to sink the ships in the harbor... they are just waiting the map out till red runs out of pilots, blue are 80% sure to with this map because they have the far superiour fighter. And because if red sink a carrier they dont loose anything, they just get a free 2500m airstart!

A way to solve this could be to give the blue carriers as targets to red, that way they might begin to attack the harbor a little and not just wait it out.

norrismcwhirter
21-01-2006, 17:35
You obviously fail to recognise the problems for blue with collisions on carriers, having nowhere to land or landing on a deck with inevitable damage.

Or, for that matter (if this is the right mission), the fact that red have a often heavy a-historical B17 presence for attacking the carriers.

Ta,
Norris

Commander Keen
21-01-2006, 22:47
And Norris you obviously fail to read what i'm writing, and i know about the bombers... if you look there are one in my screenshot.

First off the japanese forces have a carrier that you cant spawn on, placed there for landing on... its the one with green lights on! And for that matter, how many people land again? 1 of 10 maybe! Rest just ditch their plane close to a carrier and refly, because it counts as a landing to and they get all their points for it. And collision on the deck??? There are like 5 carriers that blue can spawn on and the Zero is very easy to take off with... i have yet to see a collision on this map.
And for the matter of the B-17's, yes its there... and pay attention now: "Red have NO targets" Like i said in my first post, so destroying the carriers will only help blue because it gives them a free 2500m airstart... so you see therefor the bombers are totally useless.

-----
I therefor still belive that, removing the static planes on the airfield and placing them on the sidelines of the spawn area would solve alot of problems. And makeing the blue fleet objective for the red team would help this map alot.
That would put a pressure no blue to either keep the bombers away of do the objective them self, instead of just waiting it out.

Gordano
22-01-2006, 02:56
I am lead to believe that the static aircraft placed over the apron are intended to make the mission more historically accurate. As during the actual Pearl Harbour attack the situation was rather chaotic with aircraft being destroyed as they were taxing and taking off etc.

This IMHO gives the mission a more atmospheric feel as you can not simply drop the flaps and give it full throttle to take off. Instead you have to negotiate the wrecked aircraft to get airborne.

The lack of objective for the red is not ideal for me. I would like to see the carriers set as a target or maybe the blues being given a reduced number of planes/pilots?

stanford
22-01-2006, 06:00
I have to agree there is a serious problem with this map. Blues rarely go after the objectives - but whether they do or don't reds are heavily disadvantaged.

I can see why it would be so difficult to create a fair and historical Pearl Harbour map - it simply wasn't a "fair" match-up. If the map is to be included at all there needs to be some fiction to it.

norrismcwhirter
22-01-2006, 09:52
And Norris you obviously fail to read what i'm writing, and i know about the bombers... if you look there are one in my screenshot.

First off the japanese forces have a carrier that you cant spawn on, placed there for landing on... its the one with green lights on! And for that matter, how many people land again? 1 of 10 maybe! Rest just ditch their plane close to a carrier and refly, because it counts as a landing to and they get all their points for it. And collision on the deck??? There are like 5 carriers that blue can spawn on and the Zero is very easy to take off with... i have yet to see a collision on this map.
And for the matter of the B-17's, yes its there... and pay attention now: "Red have NO targets" Like i said in my first post, so destroying the carriers will only help blue because it gives them a free 2500m airstart... so you see therefor the bombers are totally useless.

-----
I therefor still belive that, removing the static planes on the airfield and placing them on the sidelines of the spawn area would solve alot of problems. And makeing the blue fleet objective for the red team would help this map alot.
That would put a pressure no blue to either keep the bombers away of do the objective them self, instead of just waiting it out.

It doesn't occur to you that blue has a major amount of congestion for landing when they've had most of their carriers "a-historically sunk" by "a-historical" bomber presence?

Of course, this is fine for the majority of people who just want to shoot as many planes down as possible before getting killed themselves but some of us would actually like to land. And, when your AAA is firing for a very long time at tough aircraft that shouldn't really be there, it makes landing even more treacherous.

Why not just stick some Bettys on the map? Or HK8s? ;)

Ta,
norris

Commander Keen
22-01-2006, 14:42
Norris i AM one of those people, but like i say its 1 of 10 that land... rest are just there to get KILLS KILLS KILLS!

There are B5N on one carriers, and as far as i know the H8K wasen't present at pearl.
And for the landing part... again this map also have inactive carriers, so they wont be firing any AA of to lag up your landing!!!

But like i have said before... Either blue needs somewhat fewer pilots/planes or make the blue carriers targets for red. Because if they had no carriers, where would they land?

"It doesn't occur to you that blue has a major amount of congestion for landing when they've had most of their carriers "a-historically sunk" by "a-historical" bomber presence?" << What do you mean by that, that comment made no sense!

As for the static planes in the spawn area, it seems that you missed what i ment with it... If you spawn in a bombers infront of them, you lose your tail instantly! Because your tail spawn inside the static plane.

Crashin'Sakai
22-01-2006, 14:45
Historically, the first wave of attack was carried out in surprise, from which Japan got a very bad reputation in the U.S. We the post war generation of the Japanese and Japanese Americans are still upset about what our ancestors did in WW2, if you are curious about how we feel about it today. As a matter of fact, we still suffer from that reputation here in the U.S.:(. (And imagine how Hawaiians felt/feel. At the time of the attack, more than half the population in Hawaii were Japanese immigrants and their decendents. They volunteered to the U.S. army in mass to prove their loyalty to the U.S. The legendary 442nd consisted of Japanese American soldiers fought in the European theater with astonishing courage. They became the most decorated units in history.)

Back to our game.... The second wave of Pearl Harbor attack was carried out a few hours after the first wave. The US interceptors and gunners were waiting. I don't remember the stats but a significant number of IJN planes were lost during the second wave (but not many during the first wave). That is a part of the reason why the planned 3rd wave of attack to oil storage, docks, and other military infrastructure was aborted.

The fundamental problem in ANY maps with U.S. fighter planes is, many red players fail to see the needs for climbing up before facing Zero's. Personally I am really afraid of U.S. planes piloted by skilled players Z&Bing from higher altitude (I mean, how many times Wild killed my Zero using what many other players would call crap U.S. planes?!). But most red players don't realize this. One thing you could do is to give airstart for F4F and P40 at, say, 2000m, over the base. Since blue has to fly over the mountains to reach the base, Zero's get in at some altitude. What often happens in that map is, F4F and P40 climb up toward mountains, and encounter blue team at the same altitude.

norrismcwhirter
22-01-2006, 15:02
Norris i AM one of those people, but like i say its 1 of 10 that land... rest are just there to get KILLS KILLS KILLS!

There are B5N on one carriers, and as far as i know the H8K wasen't present at pearl.
And for the landing part... again this map also have inactive carriers, so they wont be firing any AA of to lag up your landing!!!

But like i have said before... Either blue needs somewhat fewer pilots/planes or make the blue carriers targets for red. Because if they had no carriers, where would they land?

"It doesn't occur to you that blue has a major amount of congestion for landing when they've had most of their carriers "a-historically sunk" by "a-historical" bomber presence?" << What do you mean by that, that comment made no sense!

As for the static planes in the spawn area, it seems that you missed what i ment with it... If you spawn in a bombers infront of them, you lose your tail instantly! Because your tail spawn inside the static plane.

It must be my imagination with the lag at the carriers because I recall having lots of problems with lag around them.

Also, I know the HK wasn't present but I think there were only 12 unarmed B17s in the air (hence a-historical) and they didn't carry any bomb load.

Regardless, this is a tough map for red and, quite frankly, it should be...it is, after all, supposed to represent a surprise attack by a large and well organised bomber force with fighter escort.

Perhaps a more realistic take would be to remove red bombers and to only have fighters attemping to stem the attack. After all, practically all the US aircraft at Pearl were destroyed on the ground; only around 20 made it into the air and most of those were obsolete.

Ta,
Norris

stanford
22-01-2006, 16:41
I thought only one guy made it in to the air? Maybe it was just one guy during the first wave. I know he was flying an obsolete aircraft and he managed to get one zero and land again. They counted 116 holes in his plane when he made it back :)

Crashin'Sakai
22-01-2006, 23:25
I thought only one guy made it in to the air? Maybe it was just one guy during the first wave. I know he was flying an obsolete aircraft and he managed to get one zero and land again. They counted 116 holes in his plane when he made it back :)
What amazes me is the courage demonstrated by real pilots of all countries in both sides, whether in Europe or Pacific. If we look at the photos of those real WW2 pilots, many of them look really young. I can't imagine myself taking off alone when dozens of enemy planes are swarming my base in real combat. I wound not take off even in this game with a "refly" option! We are all lucky in that we are just playing il2 as a game, mixing players from countries of former foes together, we are really lucky....

Crashin'Sakai
23-01-2006, 00:07
I usually fly this map for red and am having an easy time. Last two sorties I had on that map I scored 7 kills each in a F-4F. I have to admit that I was about the only red who would refuse to enter low alt turnfights with Zeros. You can do just as well in a P-40.

I think in both sides of the Pacific ocean, WW2 airplane junkies are well aware of the fact that Z&B was essential for the later success of allied fighters against agile but fragile Japanese fighter planes. I guess European gamers (excluding pro's like JtD) are less aware of that.


I think the reason for such a low number of blues attacking the ships is the inefficiency of Japanese bombs. Usually you won't be able to destroy any ship with just one attack run.

If you give D3A (dive bombers) and B5N (used for both torpedo and high altitude level bombing against ships in Pearl Harbor) airstart from a location closer to ship targets, bombing and torpedoing enthusiasts may find more incentives to fly bombers. As it is, it takes quite a while to reach ship targets from blue carriers. D3A and B5N are relatively easy targets to shoot down by P40 and F4F, and their presence would diversify the playing experience by red team (instead of just fending off Zero's), which probably would make red team happier.

Needless to say, in real life, there was no such thing as airstart!! The air battles over the Pacific were often fought after 3 hours of flight covering more than 1000km of distance --- and they had to fly 1000km back! When European players ridicule Zero etc. as a "paper plane" because of its weak defense (in reality Zero was made of light weight alloys), they are failing to recognize the fact that the capability to fly a long range was *the* key consideration in early designing excersice of Japanese navy planes. Unless they could fly 1000km (at the expense of the structural strength of wings, armour and self-sealing fuel tanks etc. to avoid extra weight), they could not reach the target. I wonder what those pilots were doing during the 3 hour flight and the additional 3 hour return trip....

Edit: forgot to mention. Ki43 was designed for IJA by Nakajima about the same time as A6 Zero for IJN by Mitsubishi. Unlike Zero, Ki43 had a decent pilot armour (about the same thickness as US planes), because IJA fighter planes were used in close range combats over ground battle fields and did not have to fly a long range. (IJA pilots did not even know how to navigate 1000km over ocean with a map and gauges).

norrismcwhirter
23-01-2006, 08:01
The B-17 has been added to the map as an afterthought and there are problems with the static planes when a B-17 spawns. I suggest to move it to the other red base. The static planes will not collide with fighter sized planes.

I usually fly this map for red and am having an easy time. Last two sorties I had on that map I scored 7 kills each in a F-4F. I have to admit that I was about the only red who would refuse to enter low alt turnfights with Zeros. You can do just as well in a P-40.

I think the reason for such a low number of blues attacking the ships is the inefficiency of Japanese bombs. Usually you won't be able to destroy any ship with just one attack run.

Essentially there is no AAA on that map until one hour into the mission. IJN carriers are silent for 120 minutes. So if you get lag from carrier AAA it's your imagination.

I think the reason why so few blue go after the targets is more that many of them get tied up shooting down supertough red bombers at their carriers [which never actually occurred] resulting in the problem that when the blue bombers do reach the red ships, they are set upon by a large number of fighters.

It could be argued that taking red bombers off would mean more red fighters but one red bomber can tie up many blue fighters. Attacking in force, bombers and fighters together, would enhance the quality of this mission no end.

Ta,
Norris

Commander Keen
23-01-2006, 19:33
1st - lets not make this into who or what made it into the air, or what happend back then... because then it would have to be a Coop map. And its not its a open multiplayer map!
2nd - Yes there were a group of B-17's comming in from the main land and they were unarmed. But you can remove them from the map, since i never fly then anyway! We still have the SBD, and if you wanner talk plane then we should have the catalina also.
3rd - I'm here to correct some things that are hindering red team a great deal compared to what blue have, and not what the map should be like if we wanner recreate pearl...!?!
But because of how the map is (And i have said this in almost all my other posts)... Short flight time = short time to climb without circling quite a few times. And because red have no targets and the zero is a far better furball fighter that any of the US planes, all blue does is just waiting the map out.
--- The static planes are only a problem if the bombers stay in and to all the restless pilots who dont have the kalm in their body to taxi to the runway!!
--- I still believe that red should have some kind of target, blue carriers, because this would put some kind of pressure on blue to act, and not just wait it out.
--- Move the blue fleet to the north of the island, where they really came from, this will also give red more time to muster their forces. (And i dont need a history lesson here, about surprice attack and the like... this is a open multiplayer map, we can talk surprise attack and the likes when we make it into a coop, besides if you wanner talk history then give blue the flight time to the island also!!!.)

Brcn
23-01-2006, 21:52
Why are you so aggressive? Just curious :confused:

norrismcwhirter
23-01-2006, 22:14
That Norris...he kill my dog :D

Ta,
Norris

Crashin'Sakai
23-01-2006, 23:19
Why are you so aggressive? Just curious :confused:
I guess I offended him somehow, by talking about some historical context....? :eek: :) :confused:

No il2 maps can be perfectly accurate, but thousands of us love ukd because the gameplay in ukd gives us pseudo-historically-correct settings. I see no reason why we should not talk about which planes managed to take off and how many etc., simply because UKD1 is not Co-op mission:confused: . Aren't we having fun here talking about these things after all??? I guess he isn't..... When I was a WW2 airplane junky first time, it was long time before flight shims were invented. I enjoy learning new things of all WW2 planes from knowledgeable people in this forum both in terms of historical context AND our game.

Historically, fighters (Zero), dive bombers (D3A), torpedo bombers (B5N), and high altitude level bombers (also B5N) accounted for abut 25% each of some 180 planes in 1st wave and some 160 planes in 2nd wave. As Commander_Keen pointed out, the blue team fly too many Zero's in the game. The loss was 9 planes in the 1st wave, and 20 from the second wave. Many of them were believed to be downed by AAA, but who knows? D3A (dive bomber) had the highest casualities. If I correctly remember, some 39 US army planes took off to intercept, and about six P36 and two P40 were downed by Zero's, something like that (IJN pilots reported 17 kills, I recall, but could be 13, not sure). These numbers are from web, and we know webs aren't always correct.

Finally, personally I have no objection to eliminate B17. I once killed it AND survived by dewinging the tip of a wing. But that's the only real successful combat with B17 in that map. It's really hard to kill B17 in that map, and usually one B17 is followed by 2-3 Zero's (plus a few other smoking Zero's far behind). The first real combat encounter between Zero's and B17 was not made until a few days later when Saburo Sakai and his Tainan-ku comrades air-raided Philipin from Taiwan after 3 hour flight over the Pacific ocean. There are interesting stories about the encounter in his famous book "Samurai" which was translated into many languages. Even those expert Zero pilots had difficulty with B17, although as of December 1941, apparently B17 did not have self-sealing gas tanks nor a tail gunner yet (according to his description). Interestingly, the US side didn't believe that Zero could fly such an insanely long distance over the ocean, even after the war was over (MaCarther wrote in his book that Zero's must have flown from carriers near Philippin. All major carriers were near Hawaii however.)

Commander Keen
24-01-2006, 02:10
Where was i aggresive?

Brcn
24-01-2006, 11:52
Hi,

I think you sounded aggressive in general, but anyway, this is not the topic.

I will remove the B17s from the map. I think this will be the most fair change that can be done to the map.

As we are always trying to be at least semi-historic in all the maps we create and run in the server, I will not make the Japanese carriers an objective.

Thanks for feedback.

Commander Keen
24-01-2006, 12:38
okay...

I still think you should move the carriers to the north of the island, it would make differnce with the increased flight time, and be more historical correct then the current location. It might give red the extra seconds, to get it toghter.

norrismcwhirter
24-01-2006, 12:53
"Red" didn't have time to "get it together"; radar reports of an inbound attack were dismissed. Surprise was almost entirely complete.

I think taking the B17s off the map will help in some way - thanks Brcn.

I don't particularly like the SBDs, either, but some people do like to fly bombers.

Ta,
Norris

Commander Keen
24-01-2006, 17:08
Again we go over in the history lesson... But fine lest do that, but then we have to draw in something else, a comparison.

Hmm... lets take ohh i dunno, the Omaha map maybe, and lest try and make that more correct.
First off shrink the spawn circle on the blue base so there can be no more that about 10 players on blue... because the allied had major air control at that time.

We can also bring up the 1941 Africa map where blue has a 1943 Me-110. Or the other africa map where there are a Me-109G2... which i think never was used in Africa.

Or the malta map where we have both a 1944 Beaufigher, and the 1943 110 again... if i remember correctly.


I'm all for that you try and make your maps more correct... but then it has to be on all of them, and not just the selected few you feel for.

stanford
24-01-2006, 17:31
I do believe you are nitpicking. As Brcn said, this is meant to be semi-historical. We just don't have the planeset to make things real, all we have is the ability to make things as fair and fun as possible.

There are no earlier marks of the beaufighter in the game.

norrismcwhirter
24-01-2006, 17:48
Again we go over in the history lesson... But fine lest do that, but then we have to draw in something else, a comparison.

Hmm... lets take ohh i dunno, the Omaha map maybe, and lest try and make that more correct.
First off shrink the spawn circle on the blue base so there can be no more that about 10 players on blue... because the allied had major air control at that time.

We can also bring up the 1941 Africa map where blue has a 1943 Me-110. Or the other africa map where there are a Me-109G2... which i think never was used in Africa.

Or the malta map where we have both a 1944 Beaufigher, and the 1943 110 again... if i remember correctly.


I'm all for that you try and make your maps more correct... but then it has to be on all of them, and not just the selected few you feel for.

They can be taken off as far as I'm concerned because I've no objection to making things "more realistic" at all. I also don't particularly subscribe to this theory about gameplay balance because it leaves us with overmodelled rubbish like I-185s, Lagg3s and I-16s (see Brick's post for a veteran's view on them). So, believe me when I'd very much like to see planes being modelled correctly but, as you suggest, limiting the numbers available to give something approaching a historical recreation. After all, that's what you'd expect from something repeatedly touted as a "simulation", isn't it?

But, while we are on the subject on being 'selective', how do you feel about removing the 1944 B25s that populate a lot of maps? Or, just giving I16s etc for the Stalingrad mission?

Also, there is no 1943 Me110...only 1942.

Ta,
Norris

Commander Keen
24-01-2006, 19:36
Yes i'm nicpicking... Because you were the one who started with the historical thing, and then why i suggest other changes that will make it more historical and even the map out all in all, you get defensive and discard it right away.

The B-25 - I like to fly bomber but i can live without, if you believe it unevens the map then remove it.

ME-110 - Yes it says 1942, but its has the armament of the 1943 version (aka MK. 108). And you have it on quite a few 1941 maps... But every time i bring it up, people like Levola get their panties in a knot and bring the same argument every time. That they cant put in the 1940 version because it has no cockpit...!? And thus it stays.
But that dosen't change the fact that on a 1941, we cant do shit against the 110... it climbs better that some of out fighters and we can by no means catch it, yes it was a good bomber/fighter in real life, but its still 2 years of advantage and it unevens the maps quite some.
And on the same matter... i have asked some times before why we dont see the Spitfire Mk. IXc on the 1942 maps then? The first squadrons were flying in the summer of 42! But the response from the syndicate is that is would make the map uneven because its to powerful... Hmm...HMM... "wait, hang on" dosen't a 1943 fighter/bomber do the same on a 1941 map???
And besides the differnce from the Spitfire with Merlin 61 and the one with Merlin 66 is something like 55 horse power, in favor of the 61!

Beaufigher - I know we dont have other versions of it, but then we can go in and look at the chnages from, say the 1942 version, to the one we have and see what was changed and then see if it can be added to a map without making it uneven. And if it makes a map uneven... then kill it and get it out! And we will have to do without.

LAGG3/i-16 - These planes i almost never fly... so i cant say if they can uneven a map, so i will not say one way or the other.

norrismcwhirter
24-01-2006, 20:04
So, from what you're saying, you'd be quite happy for us to take the 1943 Spitfires/Seafires off the '41 and '42 maps?

Good, I'll have a word with brcn about it ;)

Ta,
norris

Commander Keen
24-01-2006, 20:18
Was that suppose to be a threat, because i like british planes? If so, then all i can say is that it was quite a sad try! :thwak:

But yes if they make the map uneven for the blue then kill them and get rid of them.
I'm all for it, just remember to do it on both fronts!!!

EDIT: /ignore JtD (Reason: Trolling).

LeVola
24-01-2006, 20:25
Like I said before, I dont have any difficulty to shoot Bf110 down with a Spit in that Africa map. Running 110 can only shoot you with 2xlight MGs if you fly in a wrong pos. :rolleyes:

Pearl map is easy for blues is reds dont know how to fly their planes. If they do only thing blues got is Flying Zippo, made in Japan. :D

Those stat planes on one red base can block your way but there is other base too.

Crashin'Sakai
24-01-2006, 20:35
Pearl map is easy for blues is reds dont know how to fly their planes. If they do only thing blues got is Flying Zippo, made in Japan. :D
I would object any effort by the syndicate to educate innocent red players regarding how to fly planes agaist the Flying Zippo. I loved it when somebody asked in chat, "Can P39 turn with Zero?" My answer : Why don't you try? :D

In reality --- I tend to fly evening hours in north America, and many people here are aware of how to run the show, and I am the one who is fried in 0.1 second! Well, but that's OK. We still share a good time. :)


Those stat planes on one red base can block your way but there is other base too.

P36 and P40 really took off from the base that was (mostly) intact, I think.

I once lived in Oahu (the island where the Pearl Harbor is locaetd) for a brief period of time. There are montains and valleys, and it takes a half day to drive around the island. It's a fairly big island. It's a beautiful place, really a beautiful place .....

Brcn
24-01-2006, 22:37
Hi,

I am quite happy with the history we try to imitate here with the given maps, planes and objects. That's why I play in this server, more, I pay this server, even more I give a lot of time to admining, maintaining the maps and creating new ones, examining the new maps others submit.

I am also happy with the friendly atmosphere, a good forum with decent people. I would go to somewhere else if some of those were missing in here for me. Everybody has his own mind and ideas, for sure.

This thread is about Objective_Pearl, and some changes are done after a logical request. If you are unhappy with our other maps, please use the appropriate thread(s) for them. If there is not a thread existing for the map you don't like, open one. If you have anything more to say about this map -it's name is written in the title of this thread- feel free to say. But please, respect others' ideas and demands.

Also do not forget the map building is done for everyone's wishes, not only for one person who is not happy about a particular planeset, unhistoricalness or historicalness.

And none of these words include a threat.

Thanks

Brcn

Crashin'Sakai
24-01-2006, 23:03
Well said.... :) One needs to strike a balance between gameplay (fun) and reality (history) , and thousands of people play ukd because we all like the balance achived in ukd.

ps. I am stuck in my office ... (just waiting for something to happen). And I noticed they are playing the Pearl map in ukd2 now. Ahhh... I wanna go home. I love that one as it is , but have not seen it for a loooong time by some bad luck.

LeVola
25-01-2006, 09:46
Not sure did they have G2 in Africa but G6 Trop they have.

Commander Keen
26-01-2006, 11:45
Maybe, but the maps i'm talking about are 1941 very early 1942, and the G6 is a 43 plane.

Algorex
26-01-2006, 13:59
atleast one bf109g2/trop must have been in the desert as brits captured it for their trials: http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/bf109g2.html

Commander Keen
26-01-2006, 19:43
What plane is that JtD? <-- EDIT (happy now)

You cant catch a 110 on the deck with a P-40 or the Spitfire Mk. Vb, and for sure not the Hurricane.
Of cause you can catch it one way or the other, like diving down no him from high above, but as soon as you are down on him and your speed returns to your normal sea level speed... hes gone! It dosen't belong there... on a late 1942 map i can accept it and its not those maps i'm talking about, its the maps where we are flying 1941 (early 1942) where it is better that some of the fighters in both turning, climbing and like i said speed in level flight.
It makes those maps uneven for red, even if you dont wanner see it...!

And about the pearl map.
Huh? No, Norris its the feel of the map... that you have to circle alot of time to gain a desent altitude, and it makes the game feel very VERY arcade like; your maps are becomming more and more instant action orriented. Thats why i wanted to move the carriers to the north side of the island, so that you dont take off and "POP" you are at the enemy spawn point. Would it really kill you to have to fly for more than 5sec before you are in the shit? Or are you all stat hunters?
I know that instant action is what the young and hip crowd wants, "cough cough", but its boring for people like me whos not there to be at the top of the scoring list, because thats not hard, but i guess thats because most people dont care about anything else.
A fact is that whenever there is a personal score, people will do anything to be at the top!! And it is ruining every game that has it... And you are getting more and more maps that are like that, about 2 grids between the bases, the only way to have any kind of altitude on these maps are by taking off out of the map and climbing or circling alot of time. You still have many good maps, thats a fact also, and them i still enjoy.
Another problem is also that UK-D is almost the only server left with desent settings, So i am doing what i can to try and keep it like that!


I guess either you can see this or you cant.... And if you cant then i'm just gonna have to keep comming back, just to remind you of it. ;)

norrismcwhirter
26-01-2006, 20:03
Norris? You've lost it completely, pal.

I'm Norris...he's JtD ;)

And, I don't think JtD is going to be very happy with you thinking he's me and vice versa....lol....

Made my day that has.

Ta,
Norris

Algorex
26-01-2006, 20:15
Award for the fastest plane on deck in desert2 goes to:



P-39D

but seriously this subject should be discussed in a different thread, namely Objective_desert2 thread

NS-IceFire
26-01-2006, 22:33
Actually there is a huge difference between the P-39D-1 and the D-2. The D-2 is faster than all other P-39 types except the Q-10.

For some reason it is modeled with a boosted 1500hp engine. It may just be an attempt to show the aircraft as it would have been operating in later war scenarios.

norrismcwhirter
26-01-2006, 23:35
Hang on..not another overboosted allied ride?

Strewth..where will it end? ;)

Ta,
Norris

NS-IceFire
27-01-2006, 02:50
Hang on..not another overboosted allied ride?

Strewth..where will it end? ;)

Ta,
Norris
Honestly...

norrismcwhirter
27-01-2006, 07:52
It's a joke :D

Hang on, no, it literally IS a joke! ;)

Ta,
Norris

Commander Keen
27-01-2006, 09:50
JtD >> What is this "se" fighter?

Yellow 2
08-07-2006, 18:59
Where are the P-40's gone?

There are only F-4F's available for red. Quite disappointing.

Yes I've just finished playing it and felt the same way :confused:

Firelok
08-07-2006, 20:58
P-40E and B's in on the version I sent in, limited like everything else but there all the same.

Yellow 2
09-07-2006, 09:22
P-40E and B's in on the version I sent in, limited like everything else but there all the same.

I flew from both red bases and the choice was Wildcat or Dauntless, no P40.
I'm guessing here but historically I would have thought that the air defence of the islands would have fallen to the US Army Airforce who would have flown the P40s. Any Wildcats involved in the action would only come from Enterprise which was returning to Pearl. The limitation should therefore be on the Wildcats not the P40s.

Just my view. I still enjoyed the map even without the P40. :D

Firelok
09-07-2006, 09:25
I was looking into this a little and the older 3map version of Pearl had no P40s on the basic version. Only on the red version did P40-Bs appear.THe current version has 10 P40Bs and 5 P40Es on t'other airfield. Total number of planes is 50 for red and 60 for blue.So reds have.
15 F2A2s
15 F4F3s
10 P40Bs
5 P40Es
5 SBD3s
The P40Es are a new addition as is allowing any P40s to take off there.
blues have.
30 A6M2-21
20 D3A1
10 B5N2

We could of course remove the limits entirely or alter them as a matter of choice.

Firelok
09-07-2006, 09:50
I flew from both red bases and the choice was Wildcat or Dauntless, no P40.
The limitation should therefore be on the Wildcats not the P40s.

Just my view. I still enjoyed the map even without the P40. :D
I think we were both posting at the same time here, so in response....
I called up the map first thing this morning worried that I'd made an unnaccountable blunder.There are P40s at both bases :confused: I sat in one on the tarmac typing <planes etc.

I have however made a little blunder the B5N2 'Kate' is missing as with other AI planes if you use FMB they dissappear and have to be edited back in via text file, it's in the .ini file but not the .mis file. I will fix this when the next 6-7maps go to the server possibly next week. It's not a ride of choice not even sure you can get off the carriers in it but be sure I'll add it back in.

Firelok
09-07-2006, 13:30
imho:

40 P-40B
10 F2A2
5 F4F3
5 SBD3
You could tweak the online Pearl.ini easier than I can mate, although I have put some P-40Es an they would need figuring in to the equation,maybe 35 P-40Bs an 5 P-40Es.Or don't limit the numbers of anything blue or red.
Or I remove the P-40Es ? when I deal with the missing B5N2s(which would take a little longer). I did think the worse and they were missing entirely, getting the numbers right is a lot easier really. Anyway, lets make folks happy as quick as possible.
:)

Firelok
09-07-2006, 16:12
looks good, thx. :)

Yellow 2
09-07-2006, 17:21
Thanks Firelok and JtD :)