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Zorin
16-02-2006, 13:06
My first map up for critics and opinions:


Briefing For Blue Team
Good morning! The russian troups have suffered heavy loses during the last weeks. Nevertheless, our Fiesler reconnaisonce plane has discovered a large tank convoy heading for our airfileds near the border in grid F5. Seems they have thrown together every tank left that is in working condition. So get into your machines and cover our bombers heading out to stop them before they can become a threat to our newly established bases.
But be aware of the russian bombers who’ll properby try to destroy our supply base in A2.
Your mission is :- Destroy the tank convoy in grid F5 and secure the airspace over our supply base!


Briefing for Red Team
Good morning comrades. We have suffered badly from the last heavy attacks by the german troops and need to recover. Support is on its way, but in the meantime we have to keep the germans busy. We have assembled a large tank convoy out of our remaining intact units, which is on its way to break threw to attack the german airbases in grid F5, they need cover as heavy bombing has to be expected. To cut their own supplys short, we have to completely destroy their supply base in grid A2.
Your mission is :- Cover our tank convoy in grid F5 and destroy the egrman supply base in grid A2!

Map: Northwesteurope
Weather: Good
Clouds: 1500
Time: 7:30 am

Available Planes For Blue Team:
Bf-109E-7
Bf-109E-7Z
Bf-109F-4
Bf-110G-2
He-111H-2
Ju-87D-3
Ju-88A-4

Available Planes For Red Team:
Il-2_1940_Early
Il-2_1941_Late
LaGG-3series4
Yak-1B
DB-3
MiG-3ud
Yak-1

Further Information For Bue Team
-

Further Information For Red Team
-

Map (http://www.rollenspiel.mirko-wilhelm.de/upload/Pic1.jpg)

Supply base (http://www.rollenspiel.mirko-wilhelm.de/upload/Pic2.jpg)

Boemher
16-02-2006, 14:00
The Mk 108s will be restricted on the Bf 110 ?

Zorin
16-02-2006, 14:42
Yes, there will be no MK 108 on the 110. Atleast on UKD2, cause I don't know if it is possible to restrict that on UKD1 yet.

There is one question that bothers me. What is the right setup for the FLAK and AAA guns?

Boemher
16-02-2006, 15:59
Others know much more than me on the subject but ... Ive heard from makes that 4 x 20mm light flak and one 88mm heavy flak is the best mix to have around targets to stop too much Lag but also to protect the targets.

Zorin
16-02-2006, 16:09
And what about the range? You can't apply the real values so there must be something to fit for the game and yet be somewhat realistic.

Boemher
16-02-2006, 16:18
Best to PM Icefire or JtD on the subject, they have a few maps under their belt. It is best to tie in the range of the AAA to the range of visibility of objects or maybe even just a little less. That would make sense as the distance objects appear dictate the maximum practical range.

NS-IceFire
16-02-2006, 19:03
I like to scatter the AAA ranges. My values are similar to JTD...somewhere between 2000 and less is a good set of values to have. As I said, I scatter them...so one of the 20mm batteries may open fire at 2000m on your approach, two more may open up at 900m and the fourth may start firing at 500m. It gives the impression that the enemy is only gradually bringing their guns to bear on the new attack.

It also usually means that the guns are firing at different targets if its a co-ordinated wave of aircraft.

Zorin
16-02-2006, 19:20
Thanks for your help :)
I had the ranges set like you suggested but only at fixed ranges for each type. Light 2000 and heavy 3500. I'll alternate them a bit now.
The distances are kept sort of far because that way bombers can gain altitude and the blue fighters have time to team up with their bombers, because instead of the red base having bombers and fighters, the blue bases are seperated by airplane type.
As speaking of the planes do the plane sets work for you?

And what about a name for the map? Any ideas?

Zorin
16-02-2006, 20:48
Ok, I change the YAK-1b to a YAK-7b. Now autumn 1941 sounds quite right to me.

Brcn
16-02-2006, 21:55
Now you should find a name for your map :D

stanford
16-02-2006, 22:00
Call it Dave

Zorin
16-02-2006, 22:29
I guess I found a name that fits. "Brjansk"
At the start of the battle for Moscow the german troops captured Wjasma and Brjansk, which took place around late august/early october 1941.

Now what about a red/blue bonus plane? Any suggestions?

NS-IceFire
16-02-2006, 23:26
Bonus planes...

Well how about Bf109F-2 as standard and Bf109F-4 as bonus. Then for the Red team the P-400 as a bonus....that may not work as I'm not sure if lend lease was operating at that time....hrmmm. What about the Hurricane lend lease stuff? Maybe the field mod?

Boemher
17-02-2006, 00:45
If its Autumn 42 can I get a Fw 190 A4 to fly around in ? P400 is compoetitve against it and so is the Lagg3.

Zorin
06-05-2006, 07:41
Reworked the map, made it autumn 1942 somewhere in russia, so we have a reasonable Pe2 map.

Both teams have an airfield and an airstart for bombers.

Blue team has to destroy a fuel depo and a tank convoy.

Red team has to destory industrial facilitys, a supply train and a bridge head.

Planeset:

Blue

Bf-109F-4
Bf-110G-2
MC 202 VII(italian forces were present during the Brjansk attacks)
Fw 190 A4(bonus)

Ju-87D-3
Ju-88A-4

Red

LaGG-3series29
MiG-3-2xUB
P-40E-M-105
La-5(bonus)
Pe-2series110
Pe-3bis

Note: Bf-110 will be reduced to the role of a F modell with max 2x 250kg bombs and no weapon gondolas.

No uber bombloads on the Ju88, max will be 2x 1000kg.

Zorin
06-05-2006, 08:03
Ok, lets see.

1. Isn't a bonus plane ment to give an advantage?

2. Why do people always believe the latest stuff was around just because the year would allow it? The F4 can hold herself against the red fighters, so why bring on the G2 or even G6? As for the IAR, we have the MC as an "exotic", and I really want to see how she'll hold herself against the russian fighters. Earlier LaGGs? There is only one earlier LaGG and that one is somewhat too humble compared to the blue fighters. I-16s are just out of the question for me ;) But I could allow a Yak 1B in, if others agree with you that she is missing here.

3. The map I used is the NW Europe one, which only has one section that can be used as a dogfight map the way we prever it, and so the airstart was pretty reasonale and it is realistic to have the bombers come in from behind the front lines.

slm
06-05-2006, 12:04
At least JG5 had many Bf109 F-4 planes still in 1943.

slm
06-05-2006, 13:06
Norway and Finland, against Russians on areas we have on the Murmansk map. I don't know if they were used at parts of the east front south from Leningrad.

Algorex
06-05-2006, 16:50
JG5 operated in norway and northern finland (above oulu-kajaani line) and was getting new G-2s from the start of 43. Most of the JGs in the eastern front got their 109Gs in the autunm of 42 (From what i can gather not many BF109F were flying in after 42-43 winter)

Zorin you need yaks and i-16s just because they were everywhere in the eastern front at that time. Yak-1b, Yak-7b and i-16s24 should all be included.

If you want to get fancy you can add a jabo FW namely the FW-190A4/U3 for Ukded2 version. The bf-109E-7/B is the safe choice (they were there in 42).

Zorin
06-05-2006, 20:13
I added the Yak 1B and 7B for reds and the G2 and 7/B for the blues. Makes 7 typs to chose from, which should be enough.

Targets:

RED

Bridgehead (http://www.rollenspiel.mirko-wilhelm.de/upload/bridgehead.jpg)

Industry (http://www.rollenspiel.mirko-wilhelm.de/upload/industry.jpg)

BLUE

FUEL DEPOT (http://www.rollenspiel.mirko-wilhelm.de/upload/fuel-depot.jpg)

CONVOY (http://www.rollenspiel.mirko-wilhelm.de/upload/tankconvoy.jpg)

Zorin
06-05-2006, 21:37
Map has been submitted. I hope it'll be up soon for everyone to enjoy the new Pe2 :)

NS-IceFire
06-05-2006, 22:43
Good work Zorin. I like your attention to detail. Its good that you put details in and props like fences and oil depots and whatnot. It gives each map character.

Zorin
06-05-2006, 23:11
Thanks Ice, good to know people appreciate my attention to detail. Even if it only took one day to make this map, it would have been only a quarter of the time if I wouldn't have put the details in. But I think quality is what counts, so I gladly dedicate more time to a new map.

Daytrader
08-05-2006, 03:16
very nice m8 i also like bigger targets like depots etc, not just tanks.

Zorin
10-05-2006, 21:49
Extended the russian depot with a workshop area.

Extension (http://www.rollenspiel.mirko-wilhelm.de/upload/repairfueldepot.jpg)

Daytrader
11-05-2006, 01:41
really nice m8 the more targets the better i say :)

Boemher
11-05-2006, 01:43
why arent you guys online :D! Ive been looking for you's

Daytrader
11-05-2006, 01:49
i miss u too :) i been putting my actual photo of me on my pilot for all u to see took me hours, will be on tommorow thou see u then m8 and u zorin.

ps: get to bed man

RolandWalker aka Boemher go post your cockpit man :p

cockpit (http://www.battle-fields.com/commscentre/showthread.php?t=10705)

Firelok
31-05-2006, 21:31
The local admin played it on the server earlier,I didn't see it on the <listmaps command but I tried it anyway for Zorin.The server was quite full and I rather enjoyed it mostly flying Pe2's. There was a little confusion over the red targets, as these are one the red side of the front, some explained in the brief as russian stores etc that have to be destroyed before the enemy get them but there is an Axis bridgehead in that area that contains German tanks/halftracks covered by gunboats in the river perhaps the frontline needs to be adjusted a little around these targets. Nice to be able to use LaGG uber cannon for a change, it still didn't help me, lol.

Zorin
31-05-2006, 22:07
Yes, the point is that reds want to destroy their facilitys before they can be brought to use by the germans. Thought that would be a unique idea.

But I saw that I left too many static cameras, so I'll change that and take a look at the frontline there.

Zorin
05-06-2006, 23:45
Played the mission today and the plane set seems to be quite balanced. So the AAA over the bridgehead was pretty heavy, many Pe2 have been eaten alive before they even released their bombs, so who would like to see the AAA lessened? I'd simply disable the ships AAA, which could be done by JtD so I don't have to send him the mission file again.

Zorin
10-08-2006, 02:53
As this was on eof my first maps, I made the classic mistake to place artillery targets instead of static objects targets all over the map, which start to shoot at planes and should be the reason for the lag that some people experienced on the map.

I'm going to change that.

Oh, and Fire, please remove the limitation on the Macchi, ther eis no sense in limiting these deathtraps atall ;)

And if anyone wants changes to be applied, please let me know HERE.

Firelok
10-08-2006, 11:45
I'm suggesting the following for a less restricted planeset---
RED
LaGG-3series29=kinderwud
MiG-3-2xUB
P-40E-M-105
Yak-1B
Yak-7BPF
Pe-2series110
Pe-3bis
BLUE
Bf-109E-7
Bf-109F-4
Bf-109G-2=R6-MG151-20
Bf-110G-2=m1;m1m3;m1m5;r1;r1r7;r3;r3m1;r3m2sc500;r3m2sd500;r3r7m1;r3r7m5;r4;r7m1
MC-202_VII
Ju-87D-5=1xsc1800;1xab1000;1xpc1800
Ju-88A-4=2xsc2000;1xsc1800;2xSC1800;2xAB1000;2xSC1000

So most radical first-
Have less 109G2's and LaGG's(12 per side) but they have access to their most powerful arms. No other numbers restrictions for either side.
Or give reds the La5 in limited numbers to counterract the Bf109G2 and leave things as they are in terms of numbers/armament.

More sensibly-
The Ju88 has 'all' of the uber bombs restricted, the 2xSC1000 option really is very destructive, 4x500 is still available but this doesn't have the blast radius of the 2x1000 that can kill the repair depot in one go.
Ju-87D-5 get to use the SC1000 this gives a reason for risking your neck in a Stuka rather than use a Ju88 ;)
Maybe re-arrange the RED's targets vehicles than are in the industry area to be a bit more visible.
P.S. when I looked at the .ini to check this stuff, the [Respawn]times are here rather than in the .mis file which needs fixing,sorry I overlooked this when I was updating all of the maps.

Zorin
10-08-2006, 12:24
I'd like to stick to the list you suggested Fire. Sounds good.

EDIT: It is fine with me to limit the G2 to 20 planes. There is no need to limit any russian plane in numbers, because the F4 is still a good match for any russian fighter present, only the kinderwud cannon on the LaGG should be locked.

So the only targets for red, that are no industry facilities, are placed on the trainstation forecourt, which makes them visible even from a distance. So I don't see how I could apply any changes there.

stanford
10-08-2006, 12:46
My only concern with this map is that in a G2 I can be completely untouchable if I want to be. It is one of the best planes in the entire game, nothing on red comes close to combating it. I don't want another La Vs 109 map, we have loads. To be honest I don't really have a soloution other than limiting the G2's available. I love the maps where we get to bomb whole city / industrial areas though. Much fun.

Firelok
10-08-2006, 13:29
Updated files have gone on the server, G2 is limited now(20) and Ju88 no longer has 2x1000kgs but Stuka now has 1000kg.

Zorin
11-08-2006, 14:55
As people left as fast as they could when the map came up for testing, only complaining about the planeset, especially on the red side. I have a new suggestion:

RED
LaGG-3series35*
MiG-3-AM 38*
P-40E-M-105
Yak-1B
I-185 M-82(only 10)*
Pe-2series110
Pe-3

BLUE
Bf-109E-7
Bf-109F-4
Bf-109G-2
FW-190 A-4(only 10)*
Bf-110G-2
MC-205 V Series I*
Ju-87D-5
Ju-88A-4

Restrictions will stay a they are at present.

Zorin
12-08-2006, 10:51
If you want changes, than comment on this. Please.

Algorex
12-08-2006, 11:51
i-185 is a la-5fn two years in advance with an extra cannon. How about something more sensible like yak-7b 1942 or a yak-9.

Actually my consern is over the targets for blues, they are quite hard to locate as opposite to the reds who can just fly to town and dive towards the AAA, secondly as the red bomber have an airstart why not give blues one too as the ju88 has been nerfed.

Zorin
12-08-2006, 12:13
We had the Yak 7B `42 and noone wanted it. :( I also thought about the Yak 9 but I couldn't tell what the big difference is to the Yak 1B except the armament.

And the blue bombers have an airstart.

NS-IceFire
12-08-2006, 18:49
Zorin, we have to educate you on red aircraft :)

Yak-1B and Yak-7B or Yak-9 offer some different abilities. People not flying the Yak-7B in one scenario doesn't mean its bad to have it. Keep it...people will discover it like they have discovered many other planes on the UK server.

Yak-1B is fastest of the three at low altitude. Its also more agile. The Yak-9 has better speed over medium and higher altitudes (by Russian standards). Its also more agile and better handling than the Yak-7 series. The Yak-7B has more firepower than most of the Yak series until the Yak-3 or Yak-9U. So all have their place.

Considering the opposition on Blue, you could offer all three without any one of them standing out in any considerable way.

Zorin
12-08-2006, 22:15
Ok, so you think we should try this?

RED
LaGG-3series35
MiG-3-AM 38
P-40E-M-105
Yak-1B
Yak-7B
Yak-9
Pe-2series110
Pe-3

BLUE
Bf-109E-7
Bf-109F-4
Bf-109G-2
Bf-110G-2
MC-205 V Series I
Ju-87D-5
Ju-88A-4

NS-IceFire
12-08-2006, 23:55
That looks good. The only thing that stands out to me is the MC.205. I thought they were a middle of 1943 type of airplane and on the eastern front too? Did I miss that discussion?

In any case...that bit aside I think the planeset is very good now. There's a good mix of singles and twins, attack, and fighter. Everything seems to be fairly well balanced out to the point where either team has options if the pilots are upto the task. Which is key.

Zorin
13-08-2006, 01:06
There were MC 202s in the russian south, even close to Moscow, but the MC 202 stands no chance at all against the red planes, I mean which Macchi has a chance in general in this game?... Well, I'll change it back to a MC 202 XII..poor little italians...

NS-IceFire
13-08-2006, 03:44
I know...its a horrible plane. I'm wondering if it'll be improved in the future. There's a multiple page thread on Ubi forums so I'm wondering if something will be done.

Zorin
13-08-2006, 03:54
Yeah, I'm keeping track of it. I for myself whould already be pleased if they would change the ammonition on the 12.7mm. That way we may be able to hit a plane and not only scratch the paint. ;)

NS-IceFire
13-08-2006, 04:48
Yeah, I'm keeping track of it. I for myself whould already be pleased if they would change the ammonition on the 12.7mm. That way we may be able to hit a plane and not only scratch the paint. ;)
I would be giving a huge thumbs up for that.

I've tried to bring down something...anything with those Italian machine guns and I think I managed two kills. A P-47 from a MC.202 that I scared into the ground more than anything else (I wasn't doing ANYTHING to him) and an I-16 from a G.50 which I hit the fuel tank and caused him to crash later. Horrible.

Hope something happens.

Zorin
14-08-2006, 20:41
What about adding th P-39 Q-10? It is labeled to be a 1942 plane, who can shed some light on this?

And Boemher was somewhat persistent to get a A4. Can we do something about that?

Boemher
14-08-2006, 20:55
I dont think A4 was present until late 42 and P39 Q10 is too good for this map imo. I was being persistent because I hate maps where only Bf 109 is available as blue fighter I tire of its flying characteristics more than any other fighter

Algorex
15-08-2006, 01:54
My major consern with this map is the lag over the target areas, it's almost unplayable when the whole AAA arsenal decides to open up. I do think that the fences and other nicknacks give the maps a nice touch but it isn't enough to sacrifice playablity.

Zorin
15-08-2006, 02:07
I already reduced the AAA in the last overhaul...well, maybe I can shrink it even more.

And which fences do you mean?

Algorex
15-08-2006, 11:47
there quite a few of them around the fuel depot.

Zorin
15-08-2006, 13:22
Here is a listing of the AAA:

Tank convy

1x 25mm
1x 37mm
1x Maxim 7,62

Depot

3x Maxim 7,62
1x 85mm
1x 37mm

Factorys/Trainstation

2x 20mm Flak 38
1x 37mm Flak 37

Train

1x 88mm Flak 18
1x 20mm Flak 30

Bridgehead

3x 20mm Flak 38
1x PAM (boat)

That is not too mutch in my opinion and even far from being realistic. But I'm open for compromises.

And the depot, simply say I should reduce the detail so we end where we started before the detailed maps ;) Groups and convoys.

Firelok
15-08-2006, 20:49
Here is a listing of the AAA:

Tank convy

1x 25mm
1x 37mm
1x Maxim 7,62

Depot

3x Maxim 7,62
1x 85mm
1x 37mm

Factorys/Trainstation

2x 20mm Flak 38
1x 37mm Flak 37

Train

1x 88mm Flak 18
1x 20mm Flak 30

Bridgehead

3x 20mm Flak 38
1x PAM (boat)

That is not too mutch in my opinion and even far from being realistic. But I'm open for compromises.

And the depot, simply say I should reduce the detail so we end where we started before the detailed maps ;) Groups and convoys.

The Flak 38 batteries are a hell of a lot more effective than Flak 30s and the Maxims are inneffective but also quite laggy.
flying over the town an aircraft is subject to 9 flak batteries of various sizes, Ok not all at once but definately in the area.
attking the depot as blue no where near as scary, 3 x 25mm's plus 1 37mm and no 85mm would seem better to me.
I don't have big object lag problems here, myself, but It's a large map NW Europe.

Zorin
15-08-2006, 21:22
RGR Fire. New setup:

Tank convy

2x 25mm
1x 37mm

Depot

3x 25mm
1x 37mm

Factorys/Trainstation

1x 20mm Flak 38
1x 37mm Flak 37

Train

1x 37mm Flak 37

Bridgehead

2x 20mm Flak 38
1x 37mm Flak 37

Firelok
16-08-2006, 00:30
I've noticed this thread has reached it's 4th page, this is a sure sign everything is going to plan :)
I think the AAA that causes a lot of lag problems is high rate-of-fire generally, in this I'd include the green laser Maxim,The M16 US half-track,Wirblewinds and the 3x25mm Japanese AA as real ones to watch.
I like the additional Flak objects we've got now but some of them have to be used with real caution and sparingly.

Firelok
22-08-2006, 12:03
Last time this came up, after the AAA adjustments the Ju88/87 airstart was broken.The usual problem of placing an airstart over trees (a strangely intermittant bug that I had problems with on the Dortmund map).
I've corrected this today by shifting this airstart NE nearer to the blues airstrip over some clear farmland.

Zorin
22-08-2006, 12:37
Thanks Firelok :)