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View Full Version : Why not "year" maps??



TheDawg
29-03-2006, 14:34
One of the biggest problems I see is map hopping, the tactic of jumping from red to blue to red to blue to grab what is obviously a superior plane.
Why not occaisionally a year map- only 1942 planes or 43, or 39 etc. Both sides have the same set.

Algorex
29-03-2006, 15:07
Because is just plain silly.

Same planeset maps are not a solution to stats-ho problems, since that's what is causing the hunt for the best fighter planes.

TheDawg
29-03-2006, 18:15
Silly?
Silly is the wave of regulars flowing back and forth to best plane sets. This would stop that.
sigh, I guess the "its not hysterical...er, historical" will be the next post.

Yellow 2
29-03-2006, 19:44
One of the biggest problems I see is map hopping, the tactic of jumping from red to blue to red to blue to grab what is obviously a superior plane.
Why not occaisionally a year map- only 1942 planes or 43, or 39 etc. Both sides have the same set.

Personally I don't find the idea of Spits fighting Spits or 190 v 190 appealing. I'm assuming that this is what you meant by 'both sides have the same plane set'. The problem is as you rightly state the tendency for some players always to choose the best aircraft for that map irrespective of whether it is an axis or allied aircraft. I don't think that there is a solution to this problem given the nature of maps and plane sets on UKD. Of course if everyone wanted to improve their skill and would fly in cockpit with no externals and try a variety of aircraft it would be an altogether better experience for all players, or so I think, but then again the chances of that happening are very slim.

Cheers :)

norrismcwhirter
29-03-2006, 20:55
I don't think same year sets are a good idea, either, although it doesn't seem to harm AFJ's numbers.

Also, you may see people 'hopping' to obtain a plane that suits their particular style of flying rather than just so as to get a superior aircraft.

Scrappy_D
29-03-2006, 21:28
Even though I have suggested similar things in the past ... not to stop this 'best fighter' hopping, but for 'other' reasons ... It does happen far too often, especaily on UK 2. Maybe some folks dont realise that they are doing it .. but they do it still (even when questioned they have some reasonably formed excuse lined up!).

I'm one of those unfortunate few who join the servers and like to keep teams even, despite the plane sets .... and more often than not I get so frustrated with people jumping onto the 'better fighter' side that I end up leaving the server. Which is upsetting and not condusive to 'having a good time' and does make one feel 'why am I here, why do I bother .. etc etc etc'. Hence why I am seen alot less these days .....

Why can't people get out of the Quake mentality (Got to have the Best gun, best this and that, and for some the best cheats!, No-one is going to kill me as I'm too good etc etc etc ...). When will they get out of this BS cycle and just enjoy flying & dying? ... Dont like being shot down? Then dont play IL2!

Rant over ... for now!

Grey_Mouser
30-03-2006, 01:30
I would not like to see anything change around the current practice of opposing planesets of historical significance sprinkled with a little practicality to ensure good fun for both sides.

I also don't see switching sides as abnormal, undesirable or in any way detrimental. Fly your favorite plane! That is what the server is for.

Obviously I switch sides and fly both sides, but not for the reasons listed. I fly both my favorite planes and often on the side that has my favorite people on teamspeak. I enjoy fast planes that handle well under speed with good firepower and secondly good energy fighters with good climb rates. I dislike Japanese planes and will occassionally fly Russian planes depending...I really like the Mig Shvak and sometimes the La series but that is about it. Fw's are great and I'll ususally only fly a 109 when there is no other plane I'd rather fly....I will almost never fly a B Mustang on a cockpit on server as its guns are useless but I do like to fly Mustangs...Lightnings are my favorite followed by Spits, Mustangs and Jugs not necessarily in that order.

Frankly speaking, if the server were to boast the same planes on both sides, I'd just go fly AFJ or 334th because of better ping and more players. It is because of the plane sets and "quake" settings that I fly here and have chosen to support it financially so it will continue into the future.

TheDawg
30-03-2006, 02:25
get so frustrated with people jumping onto the 'better fighter' side that I end up leaving the server

yup, I've heard that more than a few times.

Zorin
30-03-2006, 02:53
I also don't see switching sides as abnormal, undesirable or in any way detrimental. Fly your favorite plane! That is what the server is for.

But on a side note, it's quite annoying to get team kills for shooting down someone who switched teams during a mission. Got two this night, that's 60 points... SC needs some serious fixing if you ask me.

Grey_Mouser
30-03-2006, 04:06
hmmm....never new that was the case...I usually make my decision at the beginning of the map and only switch if teams become unbalanced or my buds on teamspeak switch etc...

NS-IceFire
30-03-2006, 04:35
Trouble with strictly year maps, based on the games collection of aircraft, is that some of the dates are blatantly wrong.

Spitfire Vb 1941 is actually a 1942 aircraft...

P-51B is listed as a 1943 aircraft...its really a 1944 aircraft.

If you knew all of those...then you could make it credible. But then you lack the historical scenario that makes up most of our missions.

Boemher
30-03-2006, 13:16
Side swapping is natural and the 'uber' planes is down to individual opinion and individual style. If you look at performance statistics for IL2 year on year the uber types tend to be as follows

Eastern front 42

La5 below 3500m at everything
G2 above 3500m at everything
Fw 190 A4 above 4000m ( in light of recent IL2 compare revelations )

Each of the types are great but you have to realise that they perform best only in certain flight envelopes. People who complain over certain types do not tend to fly them. I know what types regulars tend to fly, of all the sides I fly Russian types the least but I do fly US and RAF types A LOT and think that Western Allied types are very good. I fly the Spitfire IX in exactly the same way as the Fw 190 and I achieve very similar results.

Firelok
30-03-2006, 19:28
Shooting someone down in a 'crap' plane when there in a 'good' plane is deeply satisfying, and I might add irritating to those who aim to always fly the best plane on the map. My ethos is forget stats or uber planes, fly to win the mission for the side your on. If historically your side has crap planes, deal with it, your victories will be sweeter. I get angry enough seeing Bf109s with roundels or USAAF spitfires without having maps designed that way. Near historical maps are what these servers are all about IMHO.

p.s. Good to see the old externals off plug there YellowTwo :p

Yellow 2
31-03-2006, 10:20
p.s. Good to see the old externals off plug there YellowTwo :p

So you noticed it Firelok , I just felt like a rant. I'm sure people have read enough of my posts about settings to know where I stand. Although I always say what I think I do try and take into consideration other peoples' views and the fact that no setting is right or wrong they are all just personal preferences. :)

Firelok
31-03-2006, 19:21
And where would we be If we couldn't have a rant every now and then?
Up a certain creek without a certain instrument, mate. :)

norrismcwhirter
31-03-2006, 23:48
Of course, some people may well change their ride to offset deficiencies on the map in the first place ;)

Firelok
01-04-2006, 00:10
And also designing maps where everyone hates the planes on both sides ;)

norrismcwhirter
01-04-2006, 00:14
You have maps with La5FN on one side and Spitfires on the other? ;)

NS-IceFire
01-04-2006, 04:04
Shooting someone down in a 'crap' plane when there in a 'good' plane is deeply satisfying, and I might add irritating to those who aim to always fly the best plane on the map. My ethos is forget stats or uber planes, fly to win the mission for the side your on. If historically your side has crap planes, deal with it, your victories will be sweeter. I get angry enough seeing Bf109s with roundels or USAAF spitfires without having maps designed that way. Near historical maps are what these servers are all about IMHO.

p.s. Good to see the old externals off plug there YellowTwo :p
We have that in one of the Crimea maps where I-153's are commonly seen taking on 109s. Thats quite a hilarious set of scenarios actually :)

Zorin
01-04-2006, 04:29
Yeah, that map makes me feel they could have won the war with those beasty little planes.. there must be something awfully wrong with their FM....

Firelok
03-04-2006, 01:03
TigerTalon posted this thread a while ago for an engagment with 109s on both sides.
http://www.battle-fields.com/commscentre/showthread.php?t=10202
could be real interesting.
A mad idea I had for a 'same planes on both sides map' was Yalu_River a Korean war map with YP-80s (allowing it to stand in for North Korean MiGs aswell?)

BerSerk
10-11-2006, 20:49
You know, what really makes me berserk, that some players who joining winning team (anyway have this team overweight or not) coz winning team have best planes.
I don't telling about spit 41 versus zero, or anything else... i just wanna say, that when g2 flying vs. LaGG and Yak (or last step i185 and i16), this is not a fight - this is a total destroying. It sounds like "Man" vs. "ant". (sorry for strange comparison)) :)

NS-IceFire
10-11-2006, 22:30
Yeah, that map makes me feel they could have won the war with those beasty little planes.. there must be something awfully wrong with their FM....
The only thing awfully wrong were the 109 pilots who....for some strange reason...decided that the best evasive maneuver to use when I was on their six was a hard turn. Which of course is easy to cut across in a bi-plane! If they'd flown straight I would never have been able to touch them.

Quake pilots :)

To me, all of our maps have been tweaked and tested to be fairly balanced overall. Some folks perceive one plane to be far better than another but the reality is that depending on play style, pilot ability, and tactics used...there aren't many vastly superior aircraft. Sure...there are if you compare 1940 to 1945 but in any given year there are generally enough back and forth abilities to be able to fly on any team and do quite well given the proper application of abilities.

My only hope is that with all of the switching sides to "get the best plane"...that some people can't agree on the best plane so they ultimately even out the teams. I just fly whatever side...I actually enjoy flying both sides of each and every map if I can. Often doesn't work that way as it seems that people tend to gravitate to the side with the best turn fighters or biggest guns.

LeVola
11-11-2006, 06:37
During 44-45 when Finland "fought" vs. German troops in Lapland(north part of finland, also check community chat for santa movie) both sides got same planes. Ju88 and Bf109s, but we didnt use 109 that much because there was 109 on other side too.

During 41-44
We also used DB/SB/PE bombers, PE for recon, DB/SB mainly vs. ships/subs.
And I153 where also used, and of course Hurris, but we have map with I16 on Finland side, Im not sure how many I16 fought on our side. Maybe I16 should be replaced with I153.