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View Full Version : Why are battle maps not well liked?



TheDawg
08-04-2006, 20:03
A battle of Kursk(or mensk..or..anyhow, I just finished reading up on it), p-40fieldmod's support IL2 field mods, attacking front line positions
Germans in stukas, F2's- THAT was it attacking/defending. Thats it, nothing else, no other planes in the entire theatre- for days, no yaks, no 110's etc.

I got the map ready to go, played it, dig it.
Thought, hey I'll submit this one, even tho I never saw the other one or two submitted in rotation.
Talked to two others here and they thought it wouldn't be well recieved "not enough planes" was the common thread.
Most "battles" were, what...3-4 different planes? Why the need to add other planes, to keep the crowd? Then you start getting away from what UKded is supposed to represent, no?

thoughtS?

norrismcwhirter
08-04-2006, 20:08
People want to fly their favourite planes - that's why.

In co-ops, you get a very limited choice of planes and you may even have to fly for a side you don't like because there is only red or blue seats. It's actually a lot more fun with limited sets so you have to chop and change and develop skills but people won't do it if their favourite is available.

Zorin
08-04-2006, 20:18
If I learned one thing during this time of map creating, than it's that you wont get far with a historically correct plane set as there was like 90% of the time one side with superior planes or one side simply outnumbered the other.

Lets face it, how do you want to convice someone to fly on red side on your map?

norrismcwhirter
08-04-2006, 20:45
Put a Spitfire on it?

TheDawg
08-04-2006, 21:26
If I learned one thing during this time of map creating, than it's that you wont get far with a historically correct plane set as there was like 90% of the time one side with superior planes or one side simply outnumbered the other.

Lets face it, how do you want to convice someone to fly on red side on your map?


I know you've had a hard time of it, but I know three skilled pilots who will do quite well with either the p-40, or the IL2 against the set. Me included.
The p-40 field mod is a handful at low alt for the F-2. And the rear gunner on the field mod is lethal.
The one winter map he routinely wacks one or two 109's before he gets killed

Zorin
09-04-2006, 13:23
...The MG151 is poor. Irl, they were often upgraded to MG151/20 - an option I have asked for quite often...

Wouldn't that be just a normal F-4? The speed difference lies between 3-13km/h(sea level and 5000+ km alt), which should be of no real effect in the end.

Zorin
09-04-2006, 14:36
Well, in this case that's of no importance anyway. The F-2 outclasses the P-40 perfomance wise and therefore should be able to always stay out of the range of her 12 0.50cals.

stanford
09-04-2006, 14:57
I found the F-2 tremendously difficult to get kills with. I think in the past, bar one lucky control cable hit, I have only managed pilot kills with it. I'd sooner take a Hurri or a P40 over it.

Zorin
09-04-2006, 15:11
Against a P-40 (AI), just tried it aswell as a Yak, she really outlasses them, but yet you can't compare AI with a real person at the other end ;)

Algorex
09-04-2006, 15:55
How much ammo did you spend on the p-40?

Zorin
09-04-2006, 15:56
25% MGs and 40% 151/15. No pilot kill.

Zorin
09-04-2006, 16:22
Of course you are right, 6 not 12 ;) And you should always stay in groups and not let the enemy outnumber you. And the F-2, with a plus of 40km/h at sea level will always(90%+) get away from a P-40.

TheDawg
09-04-2006, 16:32
you can't compare AI with a real person at the other end


The only truth in this game!
I'll take either one, both have strengths to play to, dont turn fight with a P-40 at 220k. Dont chase a F-2 above the clouds........alone!




so, I guess in summation, dont bother submitting the map unless I add 190's, migs, stukas, 110's, la-5's? :D

stanford
09-04-2006, 18:02
I like the idea a lot, except when it's taken to extremes like the warsaw map (p.11's vs stukas only).

I really dont mind so long as I'm not forced in to a Yak-7!

TheDawg
09-04-2006, 18:14
Well, I could add all those planes, then its just another map.
I dont mind the p.11/stuka map, its very short, and adds one whole dimension to the great game!
Its a challenge to shake off a p.11, or likewise, kill the pesky thing.

Zorin
09-04-2006, 18:20
And there is no other way to make this scenario "enjoyable" for either side besides not sticking to the truth. Or do you want Bf110 Cs around? ;)

TheDawg
09-04-2006, 21:11
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :cool:

Bogustogus
09-04-2006, 21:48
Hmmmm..... I also just finished a Kursk map, and I did'n t see a place for the F4 in it. I think if u read history carefully, the VVS chose to introduce new aircraft in this battle, such as the La5FN, and they were up against 109G2's, 110, and Stuka tank busters.

I could submit it to have someone review it... should I?

Gordano
09-04-2006, 22:23
The other thing we have to take in to account here is that on a public server not everyone is going to fly together as part of a team, there are going to be a lot of people flying as induviduals no matter how hard we try and promote team play.

Therefore a lot of real life tactics and scenarios go out the window and adjustments to the planesets need to be made in order to keep people flying on the server and not all piling on to one team.

Brcn
09-04-2006, 22:44
Hmmmm..... I also just finished a Kursk map, and I did'n t see a place for the F4 in it. I think if u read history carefully, the VVS chose to introduce new aircraft in this battle, such as the La5FN, and they were up against 109G2's, 110, and Stuka tank busters.

I could submit it to have someone review it... should I?


Sure. Check this post before you send your map : http://www.battle-fields.com/commscentre/showthread.php?t=10267

stanford
09-04-2006, 22:51
New maps are always welcome, thanks for taking the time to create one.

This thread has got me thinking, and Dawg, I'm with you. I REALLY want to make a map with just two, max four, planes to choose from. Maybe one bomber / fighter per team. I need to think up a relevant scenario, but I'm bang up for a challenge.

I would like to take this opportunity to point out that I SUCK at making maps, and I'm going to need to get it thoroughly tested :D

Zorin
09-04-2006, 23:21
My Bergen map as the Hurri and Blenheim/Li2 for reds and E4/H111 for blue and both have the Gladiator.
Absolutely enough to chose from.

But as you pointed out Gordano, people won't do what you tell them in the brief, so I have to set the airstart for the Blenheims south instead of north of their targets, just to prevent them from bombing the blue airbase...
God I hate this...

Algorex
10-04-2006, 11:23
IIRC Bergen's briefs don't work.

TheDawg
10-04-2006, 12:53
New maps are always welcome, thanks for taking the time to create one.

This thread has got me thinking, and Dawg, I'm with you. I REALLY want to make a map with just two, max four, planes to choose from. Maybe one bomber / fighter per team. I need to think up a relevant scenario, but I'm bang up for a challenge.

I would like to take this opportunity to point out that I SUCK at making maps, and I'm going to need to get it thoroughly tested :D


Right on, welcome to the dark side.
As for thinking up "relavant scenario", there were hundreds, real life air battles. I found this one by googling "obscure tank battles" and saw the sidenote on something misspelled "stermovoch"
No imagination needed. Google can be tricked into finding battles for you. I prefer those Eastern front sorties, mid war.
I'll submit the map this afternoon.
All it takes is to keep these maps 'time' shorter. And we can still do the 'vote' thing no? If it sucks, roll it over, if enough folks bitch, YANK IT!

NS-IceFire
11-04-2006, 03:23
I do try to ground all of the maps I've submitted in reality but the truth, as mentioned here, is that there needs to be a large variety of types or people leave. They don't like flying in bad weather, they don't like the sun in their face, and they don't like not having their favourite plane on every map...so they leave and get accomodated by 12:00 high noon, no cloud, all planes available servers.

Zorin
11-04-2006, 04:10
I do try to ground all of the maps I've submitted in reality but the truth, as mentioned here, is that there needs to be a large variety of types or people leave. They don't like flying in bad weather, they don't like the sun in their face, and they don't like not having their favourite plane on every map...so they leave and get accomodated by 12:00 high noon, no cloud, all planes available servers.

But on the other hand, do you actually want those poeple to be around here?

Boemher
11-04-2006, 11:29
Of course you are right, 6 not 12 ;) And you should always stay in groups and not let the enemy outnumber you. And the F-2, with a plus of 40km/h at sea level will always(90%+) get away from a P-40.

I fly the P40 quite often, there is a map where there is the Bf 109 F2/F4 against the P40 and if you enter a dogfight with the Messer you can normally triumph. The .50 cals do real damage to the Bf 109's engine with the slightest of hits.

TheDawg
11-04-2006, 14:29
Battle Maps: By nature, battles are short, decisive one way or the other.
Shorten time to 30 minutes. I think battle maps would do better in UK2, by nature pit fliers are "more into it" than wonderwimmins.
I-16 vs. emils are another EXCELLENT example.
Classic examples of not the violin, but the player, eh?