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Zorin
28-05-2006, 16:16
Ok, a western map for System. And a med mission not on the med map ;)

Map (http://www.rollenspiel.mirko-wilhelm.de/upload/Sicily.jpg)

As you can see germans/italians have two airfields one west and one east. Americans have landed south and occupied an airfield and are advancing towards the north with a heavy convoy with carrier support.
The objectives are obvious, blues have to destroy the convoy(Ju88/He111) and reds will destroy a fortification. They'll have the B25 bomber and B25 ground attack version.
American troops will be scattered around the southern coast, not being a mission objective, as Jabo fodder.

Please suggest planes for each side.

Boemher
29-05-2006, 13:58
I think Fw 190 A5 for Jabo, Bf 109 G6 and Ju 88. Im not up to speed on italian types. For the Allies Spitfire Vcs, maybe Vb L.F, P38, P40 and P47 D10. There were a few IXcs too in the theatre so perhaps include it as a bonus, or depending on how map balance is it could be permenant fixture.

Zorin
29-05-2006, 15:13
OK, that sounds pretty good, would have brought up the same a/c, butwe need some for the british carrier. I guess Sefires would be alright. So lets make a list:

Blue:

Bf 109 G2 (no limit)
Bf 109 G6 (limit)
Bf 110 E/F(no limit) - no BK37mm, no MK 108
Me 210 (no limit)
Fw 190A5 (limit)
MC 202 XII (no limit)
MC 205 V I (no limit)
MC 205 V III (no limit)
He111 (no limit) - no 2000kg
Ju88 (no limit) - no 2000kg
Ju87D5 (no limit)

Red:

Carrier
Seafire L. MK III(limit)
FM-2 as a Martlet MK V(no limit)

Landbase
Spitfire Vc (2) (no limit)
Spitfire Vb LF (no limit)
Spitfire LF Mk. IXc (limit)
P 40M (no limit)
P38J (limit)
P39D2 (limit)
Beaufighter (no limit)
B25 N1 (limit)
B25 J1 (no limit)

Zorin
29-05-2006, 15:16
Flying distances are too long for my taste - if the map is still in the early stages you could move some of the airfields around. If not, I can also live with that.

Planeset somewhere along the lines of what Roland said.

I can't move airfields around JtD, I have to work with what I have. And we have lots of maps that are split into two theatres and they are usually not voted off.

Boemher
29-05-2006, 15:30
I like the map, and 43 planesets are very balanced imo. The Bf 109 G2 should maybe be dropped as the G6 was the workhorse in 43 and actualy looks cooler with some of those skins you put on it Zorin :) I like the idea of the Axis being the slight underdog. The G6 requires a bit more skill to pilot but this is offset by its huge cannon to rip up B25s and Spits alike.

You on tonight Zorin?

Zorin
29-05-2006, 15:43
I meant to say you could move the blue bases to wheeler and kaneone or so, move the red to hickham and move the red task force closer, or even north east of the island. Reduces distances from 30 to 25 km, doesn't sound much but makes a difference. Bellows seems to be a little off and I don't expect many to select it.

Instead of Corsair, take the Hellcat or even Wildcat. But Seafire L is fine with me. Banning rocket loadouts on these fighters may be a good idea.

I can move the eastern blue base to Kaneone, but the rest should stay as it is. That would keep the distances to the center island targets equal and why should I move the northern base to wheeler if the bombers there have to attack the ships??

And the red task forces are placed like it was on 10 July 1943, so I can't move them north east.

Will change the Corsair to F6F-3 with all loadouts restricted.

Zorin
29-05-2006, 15:45
I like the map, and 43 planesets are very balanced imo. The Bf 109 G2 should maybe be dropped as the G6 was the workhorse in 43 and actualy looks cooler with some of those skins you put on it Zorin :) I like the idea of the Axis being the slight underdog. The G6 requires a bit more skill to pilot but this is offset by its huge cannon to rip up B25s and Spits alike.

You on tonight Zorin?

I put the G2 in as a stand in for the G4/Trop, but if you think she is unappropriate I can discard her.

And I'll be on tonight, of course :)

Zorin
29-05-2006, 16:03
Like this Boemher? ;)

http://www.rollenspiel.mirko-wilhelm.de/upload/HellcatVS109G6.jpg

Boemher
29-05-2006, 17:08
Good point about the G2 standing in for the G4, I wasnt thinking of it that way. Id like to see the Hellcat in this scenario along with the Wildcat, Seafire too ? If the map avoids the Spitfire IX it would encourage more people to fly US aircraft maybe or perhaps it will just become 15 Blue vs 5 Red... One thing is last few times Ive been on there have been more Reds on some Desert and European maps which is a good thing.

Like the shot , sometimes a nice skin is enough to make me want to fly a certain type. Yesterday I was itching to fly the Bf 109 G6 :D

Zorin
29-05-2006, 17:13
Well, there are usually enough people flying red on the Tirpitz map, which has simular planes for red, so I think that won't be a problem. I guess two carriers will be enough. One with the british-american planes and one with the Seafires.

reverendkrv
30-05-2006, 13:20
looking like Fun so far Zorin m8.

Flight distance is fine,It gives people a chance to gain some height,not everyone flies on the deck ;)

2 things...

why limit the Hellcat?
and i'm sure Sys would love you long time if you place p38 in the mix too ;)


see you 'up there'

Rev

Daytrader
30-05-2006, 13:52
Flight distance is fine,It gives people a chance to gain some height,not everyone flies on the deck ;)

hehe me thinks that was aimed at me, real men fly on the deck, only girls need height to have a chance :)

Zorin
30-05-2006, 15:15
looking like Fun so far Zorin m8.

Flight distance is fine,It gives people a chance to gain some height,not everyone flies on the deck ;)

2 things...

why limit the Hellcat?
and i'm sure Sys would love you long time if you place p38 in the mix too ;)


see you 'up there'

Rev

1. Why not? ;) I have no particular reason, just thought it would be good to apply the unlimited early planes ideas for the carrier planes aswell, making the Wildcat the mainstay.

2. Making the P38 a regular plane, instead of the bonus plane, would that not make the reds a real uber-force in this scenario? Not that it wouldn't be historically inaccurate, but I always keep in mind that people want balanced teams.

reverendkrv
30-05-2006, 17:26
hehe me thinks that was aimed at me, real men fly on the deck, only girls need height to have a chance :)

not directed at you Day,infact you slip past unnoticed quite a lot,because some of us are 'too high' lol :D

...P38 is uber now? news to me Z m8

seems like most people prefer to fly spit than '38s '51s & '47s,not to mention the american naval stuff.


as a footnote...109 lates with 108's getting used against other fighters... :confused:

no late 109's limited? doesn't that make blue side an uberforce ;) :thwak:

Algorex
30-05-2006, 18:09
Lighting is quite untouchable thanks to it's speed and it carries tons of bombs. People fly spits because they are easy to fly, a bit like 109s and 190s.

Anyway the allies have it good as it is, there were no Hellcats in MTO in mid-43, no P47s either. Spitfires were mostly Vcs and Seafires were all IIcs. Even the p38 should be a F-model.

Enough whining, i'd love to fly this on both sides.

PS. long distances also enable NoE dash attacking fighter-bombers to go unnoticed.

Zorin
30-05-2006, 19:02
not directed at you Day,infact you slip past unnoticed quite a lot,because some of us are 'too high' lol :D

...P38 is uber now? news to me Z m8

seems like most people prefer to fly spit than '38s '51s & '47s,not to mention the american naval stuff.


as a footnote...109 lates with 108's getting used against other fighters... :confused:

no late 109's limited? doesn't that make blue side an uberforce ;) :thwak:

Rev, I did not say the P38 is uber, just the combination of it with all the other red planes would make reds in general uber, compared to the limited blues. And if Algorex is right, reds are lucky to have all those birds I gave them.

And the 109 G6 will have MK108 because of the B25 bomber, which flys for ages even with both tanks on fire, so that is just fair.

Firelok
31-05-2006, 21:49
This isn't a post about planes :rolleyes: But about Sicily, somewhere on this map find the biggest hill and make a volcano. Etna is one of the worlds most consistantly active volcanoes and It was in full flow during the invasion of 43,
http://boris.vulcanoetna.com/ETNA_elenco.html I remember seeing old newsreel footage taken during Operation Husky.
So, could we have a little flames and pillar of smoke, please,please, can we, can we. :D

Zorin
31-05-2006, 22:04
I'll see what I can do for you Fire, could be tricky, but hey, I like a good challenge :)

Zorin
01-06-2006, 01:18
Acceptable?

http://www.rollenspiel.mirko-wilhelm.de/upload/Etna.jpg

Firelok
01-06-2006, 02:29
I like it,
I had a go after suggesting it I found a great mountain in DG66 and put some smoke and fire on it :rolleyes:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e150/firelokc/etna.jpg
need bigger fires and smoke dammit :)
Shame trees arn't part of the destruction levels too.Black rock like Tarawa atol map is needed for a good volcano.
Hey new mission types put out forest fires in converted A20s lol

Zorin
01-06-2006, 16:45
I'll check out that mountain, so I hope it is in the right area of the island, somewhere north east, like the Etna is on sicily.

Firelok
01-06-2006, 18:07
No unfortuanely it isn't Oahu is a bit flatter in that direction :o

Zorin
02-06-2006, 14:32
Trying to hide an american pilot was definitely not one of Salvatore's best ideas.

http://www.rollenspiel.mirko-wilhelm.de/upload/poorfarmer.jpg

Firelok
02-06-2006, 15:12
Frank Sinatra was later captured by blue forces Lol :)

Zorin
03-06-2006, 12:32
Just a hint for the future: Against general acceptance, a unsuspicious harbour barge can be lethal, so watch out! ;)

http://www.rollenspiel.mirko-wilhelm.de/upload/barge.jpg

Zorin
09-06-2006, 19:06
Edited the plane set again, please comment on it.

Algorex
11-06-2006, 13:30
Take the hellcat out, no one uses it anyways since there's the seafire. P-38 can be included just because there is a limited amount of people that have the skill and the patience to use it properly. And as for the bomb load it carries, we have the Ju-88 and he-111 with huge overloads on the other side and an excellent Jabo in A5.

Add Ju-87D just because it was there not that it's going get used.

A mossie or/and beaufighter could also be added for more groundpounding power for the reds. The extra firepower on the red would simulate the fact that there is an invation going on and the blues are on defence, protection ground forces, trying to relief some of the presure by sinking incoming troop convoy. Although you'd need to adjust the number of ground targets accordingly.

Zorin
11-06-2006, 13:59
Ok, changed the set. The P38 will be an F modell, so it'll carry only up to two 500lbs of bombs. Have to research the rocket capacity of the F modell yet. EDIT: No rockets on the F modell.

The Beaufighter will have rockets and two 250lbs bombs.

Zorin
13-06-2006, 03:55
Relocated the red ships and northern blue base to get the overall action closer together.

http://www.rollenspiel.mirko-wilhelm.de/upload/Sicilymap.jpg

NS-IceFire
13-06-2006, 22:07
I approve the planeset! :)

Actually you could historically add a P-39 as the USAAF did use them around this time I think. Perhaps a P-39D-2...full loadout options. Limited in number. Depends if you want to do it or not.

I like the targets so far. I'd have to play it before I could critique much else. But I like it.

Zorin
19-07-2006, 02:58
One of two targets for the reds. A radio station on top of a bunker assembly.

http://www.rollenspiel.mirko-wilhelm.de/upload/Sicily-base.jpg

NS-IceFire
19-07-2006, 04:21
Nice! I like the creativity of the target areas you do Zorin. Very impressive. I try but never seem to create anything nearly as interesting.

Zorin
21-07-2006, 14:41
Thanks IceFire :)

As the Libau map or rather its object count is not well recieved, which I can understand, I have to already cut 75% of this maps details and so it will take a little longer till it is released. With only 50% of red and blue targets and one 80% finished red base the file already reached 25kb.

That means that Salvatore is out and the planed fortification is also cancelled. Seams you'll have to bomb simple tank groups on a street again. Sorry for that.

Zorin
25-07-2006, 15:01
The building process is finished and the file weights acceptable 53kb. The blue team still has the ship target and the red team has three targets scattered around the island. I hope you'll enjoy this map :)

The MK 108 pods wil be banned on the G6, so I'd like to have the MK 108 nose cannon and the MG pods on the G2 to be still available. Your thoughts PLEASE.

Zorin
25-07-2006, 22:27
What did happen to my person that everybody is avoiding me? It wasn't a question to hard to be answered, so why can't you give a simple yes or no? I am doing this for the whole community, so I think I can expect some participation to make this as convenient as possible for you all.

Xiola
29-07-2006, 15:08
Looks good, but I wouldnt say blues are the underdog, I would say red is.

Spit V's vs 109G2/FW190A5 sound like hell for the reds to me :)

Could be cool tho, lets try it and see.

ZOrin, people who have thoughts probebly not even seen your question, I dont look at all the threads in this forum. This is the first time I read this thread.

Dont get paranoid if a question i a long thread gets unanswered, we are probably all in our own little worlds. :)

Zorin
29-07-2006, 15:15
I added the Spitfire LF Mk. IXc in limited numbers Xi, just forgot to edit the listing, sorry.

Yes, maybe you are right Xi, but you know, on the other hand people always start to complain after the map is finished and than they don't even take the effort to write down their thoughts here. They just keep complaining while the mission is running. That is just unnerving. Post what you don't like or be quiet. That is the way I think it should be. ;)

Xiola
29-07-2006, 15:53
A few SPit 9's sounds perfect, I havenot played this one yet, looks good!

NS-IceFire
30-07-2006, 23:25
Alternatively...the Spitfire VIII was used more in Italy than the IX models were. The IX was reserved for Europe and the VIII was used in Italy, Burma, and the Pacific.

Zorin
30-07-2006, 23:34
My research brought up the IXc in the Med, but no VIII. Could you give me the reference you are refering to?

NS-IceFire
30-07-2006, 23:51
I guess it depends on what the timeperiod is and what squadrons were involved when. Largely the VIII was the main variant of the Spitfire used in later operations in this theater. The IX was not used nearly as much...although used.

As in-game performance between the LF.VIIIc and LF.IXc are virtually identical it might be nice to use the VIII in these scenarios as opposed to the IX simply for variety sake. It makes no difference except that there are some fantastic skins done by the community for Italy Mark VIII models...including a Canadian squadron and American squadrons which used the Mark V and VIII for quite some time before switching to Mustangs in 1945.

We don't have the VIII in many scenarios because of two reasons:

1) Most people don't know much about the VIII model
2) Most people don't know where it was used or by who

The VIII was a total redesign of the Mark II/Mark V Spitfire design...it was meant for the Merlin 60 series (including the Merlin 66 which powers all but the HF.IX model). It had structural improvements, retractable tailwheel, improved range with added fuel tanks, and a redesigned tail assembly. Because the VIII took time to produce and bring into operation quickly the IX model was hastily improvised from the Mark V airframe. IX models were the first into combat using the Merlin 60 series engine and the VIII came later (despite naming sequence).

In terms of maitenence and distribution of materials...it was deemed that the Mark VIII's were to see overseas service while the IX saw European service. Most of the modifications (except the fuel tanks and tail wheel retraction) eventually found their way into the IX. The VIII also was the first Spitfire to have a bubble canopy (in testing) as well as being tested with alternative ailerons (which proved not to be any better than the standard design). The XIV's first prototype was actually a VIII airframe with the XIV improvements.

Some information....comes from here: http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spitfire-VIII.html

Brief Operational History

The first production Spitfire F VIII (JF.274) was delivered in November 1942. 145 Squadron went operational with Spitfire VIIIs in June 1943 while based on Malta. Operation Husky, the invasion of Sicily, commenced on 10 July 1943. On this date there were 23 Spitfire fighter squadrons based on Malta flying a mix of Spitfire Vs, VIIIs and IXs which provided cover for the invasion. 244 Wing moved to Pachino, Sicily on 13 July. 244 Wing (1 SAAF, 92, 145, 417 and 601 squadrons) as well as the 308th FS 31st FG USAAF used the Spitfire VIII during the Sicily campaign. The battle for Sicily was over by mid August.

On 3 September 1943 British forces landed at Reggio, Italy, followed by the Allied landing at Salerno on the 9th. 324 Wing was the first unit to move to Italy, flying in to Paestum on 12 September. Spitfire VIIIs were used widely in Italy from September 1943 to war's end. Units known to have used the Spitfire VIII in Italy are:

244 Wing: 92, 145, 417, 601 squadrons. VIIIs predominately/exclusively.
324 Wing: 43, 72, 93, 111, squadrons. Mix of VIIIs and IXs
31st FG USAAF: 307th, 308th squadrons. 308th was equipped with VIIIs exclusively
1 SAAF, 32, 73, 87, 185, 253, 256 squadrons. Note: listing incomplete


601 Sqdn Spitfire F VIII (Merlin 63) JF.447 with extended wing tips. Gerbini, Sicily August 1943.

92 Sqdn Spitfire F VIII (Merlin 63A) JF.476
Triola, Italy. November, 1943

Spitfire units began moving to Corsica in December 1943. By July 1944 the following Spitfire units, operating a mix of Spitfire VIIIs and IXs, were engaged in operations over France culminating in August in Operation Dragoon, the invasion of southern France:

7 Wing SAAF: 1, 2, 4, 7 Squadrons
251 Wing: 237, 238, 451 RAAF Squadrons
322 Wing: 154, 232, 242, 243 Squadrons
324 Wing: 43, 72, 93, 111 Squadrons
332 Free French Wing: 326 (GC/II/7 'Nice'), 327 (GC/I/3 'Corse'), 328 (GC/I/7 'Provence') Squadrons

The Wings moved to France at the end of August; 251 Wing to Cuers, 322 Wing to Fréjus, 324 Wing to Ramatuelle, and 332 Wing to Istres/Le Vallon. The units found it necessary to move often as the front moved quickly east towards Germany, linking up with Overlord units near Dijon in mid September. Many of the RAF Squadrons returned to the fighting in Italy in October. The Free French Wing, 1ère Escadre de Chasse, moved to Luxeuil in October staying there into March 1945. They then made their last move of the war to Colmar from where missions to Germany occasionally brought them into contact with the remnants of JG 53.


Spitfire Mk VIII of the 308th FS, 31st FG USAAF
Castel Volturno, Italy. March 1944

43 Sqdn Spitfire LF Mk VIII MT.714
Ramatuelle, France. August 1944


32 Sqdn Spitfire Mk VIII in high-altitude camo scheme
Foggia, Italy. 1944

253 Sqdn Spitfire VIII
Prkos, Yugoslavia. April 1945

81 and 152 Squadrons became operational with Spitfire VIIIs at Baigachi and Alipore, India respectively during December 1943. By June of 1944 seven more Squadrons in the China/Burma/India (CBI) theater had converted to Spitfire VIIIs, namely; 17, 67, 136, 155, 273, 607 and 615 Squadrons. These squadrons played a significant role in breaking the siege of Imphal. They met with good success against the Japanese Army Air Force's Oscars. By late 1944 Nos 1, 2, 3 and 8 of the Indian Air Force were operational with Spitfire VIIIs. They were followed in 1945 by Nos 4, 6, 7, 9 and 10 Squadrons IAF. Early in 1945 two more RAF units, 131 and 132 Squadrons, re-equipped with Mk VIIIs. The Spitfire VIII units supported the Fourteenth Army during its offensive through central Burma, the capture of Rangoon and Mandalay as well as the slaughter of the hemmed-in Japanese on the Mandalay Plain.

The RAF Spitfire Wing in Australia, comprised of 54, 548 and 549 Squadrons, converted to Spitfire VIIIs in April 1944. They were tasked primarily with the defense of the Darwin area. The Australian spitfire squadrons, Nos 79, 452 and 457, also began to re-equip with the Spitfire VIII in April. The Australian Spitfire Wing deployed to Morotai where they provided escort to Beaufighters and engaged in strikes against Japanese positions in the Moluccas.

Zorin
31-07-2006, 00:00
That is quite a bit of information. Thanks a lot Ice :) I don't have any objections to change the IXc to a VIII.

Oh, and could you provide me with the links to these skins you mentioned? I'm highly interested in well done skins. And if the are on FL, please give me the author so I don't have to look through 400 entries ;)

NS-IceFire
31-07-2006, 00:14
Definately on FL...the authors are typically Kristorf, JesterInk, or VPMedia. The VIII is apparently much easier to skin than the IX and many authors have produced some beautiful works.

System-M-
31-07-2006, 00:37
308th didnt exclusively use VIIIs the Top CO Aces used mk V's Got loads of photos of them knocking about, it was a combo of VIII and V.

NS-IceFire
31-07-2006, 01:00
308th didnt exclusively use VIIIs the Top CO Aces used mk V's Got loads of photos of them knocking about, it was a combo of VIII and V.
They used Vc's with trop filters till they ran out and got the new VIII's assigned to them. But yeah...I'm sure there was a solid period of time where the Vc's operated next to the VIII's. What a performance difference... :)

System-M-
31-07-2006, 01:38
Hehe the Last Spitfire Flown with the 308th was a V withouth the Trop filter, Robert Goebel Had to fly is to San Saverno As his 51 was allready at the airbase so he was assigned that day to fly it. It Kinda travelled around with the Group as a Mascot.

NS-IceFire
31-07-2006, 04:17
I take it their field wasn't dusty enough to completely clogg the Spitfire V's air filter? Or did it have a Aboukir filter installed?

Firelok
31-07-2006, 23:53
I've added this to the server for testing BTW :)
I sorted out the .properties file for you Zorin and have sent you the fixed version for use as a template in future projects.
The name is now Sicily rather than Objective_Sicily.

Zorin
01-08-2006, 01:52
I'll change the IXc into the VIII and restrict the 37mm on the P39. Kills the fun to see 3 Heinkels go down in a row by a P39 suffering no damage at all.

To all who know a little more about SC and the ini file. Is there a limit for the target groups? I have nine individual targets for the blue team to be destroyed but SC doesn't list any of them.

NS-IceFire
01-08-2006, 04:15
Please do not restrict the 37mm....despite what the game shows...the P-39D-2 was never equipped with a 20mm Hispano cannon. It was factory fitted with the 37mm cannon. The only P-39s fitted with the 20mm Hispano were the P-400/Airacobra Mark I (RAF), half the P-39D-1 factory and a few random ones in the field. Most of those fitted with the 20mm saw Russian service. A few saw American service (both D-1 and P-400).

The Heinkel shoot down with a 37mm cannon takes incredible skill, a bit of luck, and a whole lot of talent.

One situation does not warrant changing the balance...

NS-IceFire
01-08-2006, 05:19
I must add...now that I've had time to study the map that its quite a bit of fun and a different sort of map than I had expected it to turn out. The targets in particular are very well done and fun to attack. Planeset overall is a good one.

Firelok
01-08-2006, 10:21
I'll change the IXc into the VIII and restrict the 37mm on the P39. Kills the fun to see 3 Heinkels go down in a row by a P39 suffering no damage at all.

To all who know a little more about SC and the ini file. Is there a limit for the target groups? I have nine individual targets for the blue team to be destroyed but SC doesn't list any of them.

As far as I'm aware SC has no limits on this but 9 targets seemed a lot, I got nervous after 6 targets :D
SC doesn't list more than 3 or 4 (depending on the coordinates) here for example the coord info is 'DK 63' which takes a lot more space than say coords 'A4.'
If this is a problem long term you might consider placing a single large radius target and accounting for the extra objects by adjusting the kill percentage.

P.S. Please leave P39 alone, it's not an easy plane to fly and get kills and reds really don't do well in the cannon-armed department would be a shame to deny them an equaliser.

Firelok
01-08-2006, 12:01
Just had a look at this on the server, don't know why targets for blues don't appear with targets command, maybe that reds targets take up all available space? would have to destroy lots of red targets and blue targets to work out whats going on I think.

I'm thinking that maybe this suffers a little from 'overlimiting'
LIMITED AIRCRAFT...
RED
B-25H-1NA=10
BeaufighterMk21=2x500
P-38J=15,2x5006x45;2x10006x45;12x45;2x1000
P-39D2=15
SpitfireMkIXc=15,500lb250lb;500lb
SeafireMkIII=1x500;2x250;4x60hvar
BLUE
Bf-110G-2=25*I've cut the loadout list off here for neatness*
Bf-109G-6=R5-MK108
Fw-190A-5=15
MC-205_III=15
He-111H-6=2SC2000;2SC1000;2PC1600
Ju-87D-5=1xSC1800;1xPC1600;1xAB1000
Ju-88A-4=2xSC2000;2xSC1800;2xSC1000;2xAB1000

Both sides have lists that are too long for it all to appear easily.
I'm suggesting not bothering to limit the following A/C...
BLUE
MC-205_III
Fw-190A-5
Ju-87D-5
Bf-110G-2 (limits only on BK/108 gunpods)
RED
B-25H-1NA (It's an AI and not likely to be flow much)
P-38J (Reds have a lot of targets, ground attk version would help.)
BeaufighterMk21
P39 (I think this should be unlimited)
Seafire (ordinance limits,why bother? v.hard to take off with them anyway.)

Are 108's supposed to be on the G6? if not here is the 'clean version'
Bf-109G-6=R5-MK108;R6-MG151-20;U3R6-MG151-20;R3R6-MG151-20;U3-MK108

Isn't putting in a P39D-1 a bit like giving Blues a 109-F2 to fly? I think a later model such as the Q-1 would be more appropriate.

BTW if you have minor changes to the .ini file just detail what you need to alter in a PM and I'll fix it and upload myself, it'll be quicker that way ;)

As far as testing whats going on with the targets we need to flatten both sets in testing. A task I for one am looking forwards to as these all look fantastic,(Mt Bunker esp.) :D
*edit*
Err.. isn't this a bit early for the Wirblewind Flakpanzer?

Gordano
01-08-2006, 14:36
I have to agree with Firelok that some of the aircraft are unnecessarily limited, there are many types there which are not uber and will not unbalance the map vastly by having them unlimited or their full payloads enabled.

Having too many aircraft restricted just makes things a pain in the a** for many players, particularly those who are new to the server or are hampered by the language barrier.

I would say go with Fireloks suggested revisions.

I'm looking forward to having a bash at this map

Zorin
01-08-2006, 15:35
I will change the 9 targets, which are the ships, into one target with bigger target radius and adjusted kill percentage.

About the aircraft. The loadout limitations are applied to represent the correct types of aircraft and I don't want to see that changed.

Blue:

The Bf 110 is limited to represent the E version, which is the result of limiting the BK and 108s.
The Bf 109 has the option for nose MK 108 for killing the uber B25 and why limit it when the P39 shall have one??

Red:

P38 is a F modell, which does not have rockets or big bombs.
Beaufighter is a MK VI.
P29D2 Airacobras saw service in the Mediterranean area with the 81st and 350th Fighter Groups and two squadrons of the 68th Observation Group. These aircraft were diverted from a Soviet consignment, being a mixture of P-400s and P-39D-1s.

But the limitations for the Veltro III, Fw190, Ju87, P39 and Seafire can be removed.

Wirberlwind

The Wirberlwind is simply a static Flakvierling which was in use at that time on trailers or as a static airdefense weapon.

Gordano
02-08-2006, 11:27
I really enjoyed the map last night and I feel de-restricting some of the planes will make things a lot better.

I was a little disappointed that people did not use the carriers as much as I would've hoped, I could only recall a handfull using them. A possible solution would maybe to move one of the ground targets a lot closer to the carriers, ie on the Northern side of the Island to encourage their use. If we do do this I would recommend making those targets soft skinned vehicles so rocket or light bomb armed carrier fighters have a decent chance of destroying them.

Finally, I hate to be too demanding considering I'm to ashamed to submit any of my appalling map attempts! Could we possibly shift the time of day to a dawn/morning time. The current time setttings means the sunlight is rather bright and gives the impression the Island is lit by a flourescant tube!! This is purely for aesthetics and atmospherics as personally I feel an earlier time would add to the old "invade at dawn chaps" type of operation :)

Zorin
02-08-2006, 11:34
Well, the mountain radio assembly is pretty close to the carriers Gordano. Infact, I had to shift the ships around quite a lot to find a position where they can't destroy the assembly with their guns. Even now, theiy do attack it, but can only hit the mountain which is in their line of fire. Otherwise I would have needed to locate the ships even further away from the island.

I sure can change the time of day, I really lie the atmosphere one can create with time and weather. So I usually tend to start with high noon, cause people like to complain about looking into the sun is a piss...

Zorin
02-08-2006, 12:30
Just checked the new version and the red targets, the ship convoy, is now listed correctly. So it does seem like SC doesn't like too many target groups. Good to know for the future.

Firelok
02-08-2006, 14:01
I'll adjust the TOD for 7.30am.

Zorin
03-08-2006, 03:57
Judging by tonights experiences I'd say that the map is well recieved and pretty balanced. But I'm suspicious, a bit to few arguments as of yet... So I keep my eyes and ears open, maybe somewhere somebody is already preparing an attack on this mission ;)

NS-IceFire
03-08-2006, 04:25
RE: Our discussion on P-39s...I have to concede to Zorin's information here. He's spot on.


With the formation of the US Twelfth Air Force in the Middle East in the Autumn of 1942, Airacobras saw service in the Mediterranean area with the 81st and 350th Fighter Groups and two squadrons of the 68th Observation Group. These aircraft were diverted from a Soviet consignment, being a mixture of P-400s and P-39D-1s. In the Middle East, the Airacobras were used primarily for very low-altitude strafing missions, escorted by Warhawks or Spitfires. They took part in the Allied landings in Tunisia, at Anzio, in Sicily, and operated throughout the entire Italian campaign. In spite of the Airacobra's obvious deficiencies, units using the P-39 achieved the lowest loss rate per sortie of any USAAF fighter used in the European theatre.
http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p39_17.html

Firelok
03-08-2006, 12:08
Judging by tonights experiences I'd say that the map is well recieved and pretty balanced. But I'm suspicious, a bit to few arguments as of yet... So I keep my eyes and ears open, maybe somewhere somebody is already preparing an attack on this mission ;)

Yep, I'd agree with this assessment. Submitting missions can have the same levels of trauma as handing in essays/reports e.t.c. and it does seem some of them are born of fire.(The enormous thread about Dalmatia would seem a good example :) ) For me I know my work on a map is finally completed when I've seen both sides win on an active server. So what next Z? The Invasion of Sardinia apparently provoked even fiercer air resistance that Sicily.

I think we are very lucky to have someone with your talents making maps and enriching our community by your efforts,
Salute. :)

Xiola
05-08-2006, 07:11
Looks good, I dont like the limiting of BK37 tho, cos I love it :D

Zorin
30-08-2006, 00:45
Would there be any objections if we change the Fw A5 to an A5 1.65ata or A6? The Spit VIII pretty mutch rules the sky so I think it wouldn't hurt, would it?

Just check todays stats: Sicily stats (http://www.il2hq.com/scstats2/il2sc_stat/index.php?navigation=map/351/index.html)

stanford
30-08-2006, 10:31
I wouldn't mind that at all. I flew in an A5 last night and had some good success with it - when flying as a team. it's a pig to get in the air though, and Spit does dominate it at Co-Alt.

Xiola
31-08-2006, 00:55
Loving this map.

Good idea to add the 1.65 ATA. Its a great plane because its faster than a FW190A6 down low, and as fast as a 190A8.

I asked Zorin to think about adding the 190A6 cos the A5 looked a bit old, but I think the 190A5 1.65 is a great idea.

The time I really need speed the most is when I am running from an enemy, I have obviously dived to get away, so that extra speed on the deck is extremely useful to me.

The Spit VIII is a very powerful plane, and the FW190 on the map needs to outrun it otherwise it has nothing. Its LOOKS very tough for blue with the current planeset, but I havent played fromt he blue side yet.


I have only really played from Red side, but thats really good.

Great map, great targets. This map is in a new class from your other ones Zorin.

Xiola
01-10-2006, 05:50
Where is this map in the rotation? I would like to play it more , I never see it on the server :(

Maybe I am just unlucky, but this is one of my favourites at the moment.

Firelok
01-10-2006, 08:44
Xoila,the most up to date map lists (for UK2) are available on this thread.
maplist thread (http://www.battle-fields.com/commscentre/showthread.php?t=10983)

Xiola
06-10-2006, 13:34
Thanks Firelok, now when are you coming back for some serious flying action>?

Firelok
13-10-2006, 02:04
Thanks Firelok, now when are you coming back for some serious flying action>?
Unavailable for this however am open to some silly flying action, sorry been playing other offline type games, very naughty I know. :)

Firelok
13-11-2006, 21:38
I've been asked whether the Mosquito could be added or maybe as a Beaufighter substitute, whaddya think? :)

Zorin
14-11-2006, 00:05
I think it won't unbalance the map as the Mossie is not the threat it could have been ;) If you substitute the Beau with it, make sure to change the static Beaus to Mossies, so we won't get freezes whenever a Mossie is spawning. I guess JTD said that this would be the right thing to do.

Firelok
14-11-2006, 01:20
. I guess JTD said that this would be the right thing to do.
He not the feller that suggested adding the Mossie. Static mossies of course. The Beaus aren't used much for bombing but for bomber interception swapping the Mossie for them is my idea rather than us just adding the Mossie.

Zorin
14-11-2006, 09:44
I meant that JTD said that it is the right thing to add static planes for every type used to reduce freezes.

Firelok
14-11-2006, 10:42
I meant that JTD said that it is the right thing to add static planes for every type used to reduce freezes.
Yep standard practice universally really, even those pesky almost all water have some carrier zero's parked somewhere ;)

Algorex
27-11-2006, 18:45
How about a reasonable limit to the Spit VIIIs (for balance you can limit bf-109G2s) but most of the fun is gone from this map when every inch around wheeler is flocked with late spits. You also could add the LF Vb and Vc here. Maybe a G6?

I know this suffered from overlimiting but now there's just too many rare birds flying.

PS. page three, i think we are getting there!

Firelok
27-11-2006, 19:23
RED
B-25J-1NA
B-25H-1NA
MosquitoFBMkVI
P-38J=
P-40M
P-39D1
SpitfireMkVbLF
SpitfireMkVc
SpitfireMkVIII
FM-2
SeafireMkIII
BLUE
Bf-110G-2
Bf-109G-2
Bf-109G-6=R5-MK108
Fw-190A-5
Fw-190A-5165ATA
MC-202_XII
MC-205_I
MC-205_III
He-111H-6
Ju-87D-5
Ju-88A-4
Me-210Ca-1
This is how it stands at the moment.
(I'm not showing the big bomber loadout restrictions to make it easier to read BTW.)
The way it is now would suggest these thoughts... Why fly the SpitLFVb if I can fly a SpitVIII and Why fly a Bf109G6 if I can fly a Bf109G2.
I wouldn't know what to think here but a gentle limit on the G2 and the VIII might be a way to go (12 planes??) Other limits or additions such as Bf109G6 (Mk108s) or the G6_Late or even the FW190A6 that's open to discussion/ arguement. I'm quite happy to implement the stuff others decide.
A rethink on whether the seafires should be allowed their rockets is what 'personally' I'd be thinking about, beacuse their not being fired at the ground targets that's for sure. ;)

Algorex
27-11-2006, 19:56
Oh yes and a p-39D2 to even the speed competition.

Crazy-hypotetical-ignore-if-you-like-idea follows: P-51B as a allison mustang? Anyone got any inside on speed differences down low?

Boemher
27-11-2006, 20:19
P39 D2s need to be given back its easily induced Flatspin. It seems to have lost it somewhere along the development of this sim ? Nowadays it is just a nice handling, straight forward, fast manuverable plane to fly.

I like idea of more G6s and P38s at the expense of Fw 190s G2s and Spit VIIIs

Boemher
27-11-2006, 20:22
How about a reasonable limit to the Spit VIIIs (for balance you can limit bf-109G2s) but most of the fun is gone from this map when every inch around wheeler is flocked with late spits. You also could add the LF Vb and Vc here. Maybe a G6?

I know this suffered from overlimiting but now there's just too many rare birds flying.

PS. page three, i think we are getting there!

It was like that today when we were on. I fought against that bugger in the Seafire for around 10 mins it was almost impossible to get shots off. I hit him 18 times in the end but he landed safely. His miraculously 'perfectly timed' ;) evasives were a nightmare. I ended up getting 4 kills and none of them registered because they were all able to gently crash land in to the sea lol

Zorin
27-11-2006, 21:21
G-2=12
SpitVIII=20

The loss of Spit VIII is much harder for red than the loss of the G-2 for blue. Perhaps a limit of 12 for each Fw could also work. Makes a total of 36vs20 for the most competitive and popular contenders and leaves the good but not so popular P-38 and Macchi 205 unlimited. G-6, LF Spit Vb make a nice addition.

Sounds good. I think we should try that.

@Algore: We already had the discussion about the D2 in here. There were no D2 anywhere near the MTO. ;)

@Firelok: Locking the rockets on the Seafire sounds good. Let the bombers have a chance to return home..every once in a while ;)

Zorin
13-02-2008, 13:42
http://il2hq.com/stats_uk2/index.php?navigation=map/114/index.html

59 vs 12

Is it a planeset or layout problem?

Zorin
22-04-2008, 17:46
As pointed out by Firelok in the Supporter's area, this map needs some changes.

I would suggest:

1. Removal of the western German base.

2. Thinning out the planeset.


RED
MosquitoFBMkVI
P-38J
P-40M
SpitfireMkVIII

BLUE
Bf-110G-2
Bf-109G-2
Bf-109G-6=R5-MK108
Fw-190A-5
MC-205_III
Ju-87D-5
Ju-88A-4

3. Removal of the carrier homebase.

Zorin
24-04-2008, 00:13
Opinions? Anyone?

MajorDamage
24-04-2008, 09:14
I'm not up to speed on this map to offer an opinion I'm afraid. I've only played it a few times and it's always felt a bit too widely spread out, so I can understand why you suggest losing some of the bases. I need to read up on the Sicily invasion so I can give you a better informed opinion.

Have you ever thought of redesigning this using the Italy map BTW? The 'Sardinia' section is one of the most beautiful areas in the game and I can't see us using it for anything other than Sicily. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with your existing map, and of course in many ways it's geographically more similar to Sicily, but I just wanted to put the thought in your head. All those wooded mountainsides to fight over...

Blasny
24-04-2008, 11:44
B-25 is gone :(

Also stats on Doc's page doesn't look this bad. Air victories are 7 to 5 for red. Red have higher score because there are more ground targets.But blue have won the map two times and red not once. This is all from UKD3.

Zorin
24-04-2008, 12:08
B-25 is gone :(

Also stats on Doc's page doesn't look this bad. Air victories are 7 to 5 for red. Red have higher score because there are more ground targets.But blue have won the map two times and red not once. This is all from UKD3.

The changes would only effect the UKded2 version for now.

I bet one of the admins can move this thread to UKded2 section. When this mission was made we didn't have those subforums ;)

Firelok
24-04-2008, 13:35
I bet one of the admins can move this thread to UKded2 section. When this mission was made we didn't have those subforums ;)

Have done, and renamed the thread, if any issues crop up with UK3 Sicily Start a new thread in
Map Discussion for UK Dedicated 3 (http://www.battle-fields.com/commscentre/forumdisplay.php?f=71)

Red have always 'felt' dominant here, except in the ground attack department. Their targets are tough to spot, spread widely and Reds bombers are a choice target for FWs sick of dealing with SpitVIIIs and P38s. Not sure what would make for a balancing. Zorins slightly reduced planeset looks OK.

If we are going to look at removing bases, should we not only remove the carrier base but also the northern blue concrete base, it's very close to reds grass strip in the west. So that would leave us with Blue coastal base to the south and Reds grass base to the east. Just a thought.

As for Major's idea, I like it because the wonderful Italy map is quite underused. Can't help thinking we should do a brand new Salerno map instead though.

I think Sicily has been popular from the outset, but maybe folks have learn't it enough to know how to exploit it.

Zorin
24-04-2008, 13:53
Have done, and renamed the thread, if any issues crop up with UK3 Sicily Start a new thread in
Map Discussion for UK Dedicated 3 (http://www.battle-fields.com/commscentre/forumdisplay.php?f=71)

Red have always 'felt' dominant here, except in the ground attack department. Their targets are tough to spot, spread widely and Reds bombers are a choice target for FWs sick of dealing with SpitVIIIs and P38s. Not sure what would make for a balancing. Zorins slightly reduced planeset looks OK.

If we are going to look at removing bases, should we not only remove the carrier base but also the northern blue concrete base, it's very close to reds grass strip in the west. So that would leave us with Blue coastal base to the south and Reds grass base to the east. Just a thought.

As for Major's idea, I like it because the wonderful Italy map is quite underused. Can't help thinking we should do a brand new Salerno map instead though.

I think Sicily has been popular from the outset, but maybe folks have learn't it enough to know how to exploit it.

1. I could rework the target areas a bit, removing the "indestructible" shelters for instance, that should aid destroying the inland target and therefor giving time to spent on the other target at the southern coast.

2. Spit VIII is a real tough cookie, as you simply can't do anything wrong while flying it and at the same time you'll be toast after the first minor mistake you made in a 190 or 109. Yet the Spitfire LF MKVb would be dominated by the blue force again...

3.
1. Removal of the western German base. That is the concrete base you were referring to, right?

4. It ain't underused per se, rather miss used to a certain extent by Kat's maps, IMO.

Algorex
24-04-2008, 15:38
Concrete base must be wheeler field the western airbase for the blues. Kaneohe is a grass airfield by the sea in the eastern most tip of the island.

Wheeler is often surrounded by high flying spitfires as it's quite close to Ewa, the primary red base and even closer to direct routes used by red fighters to most targets.

I agree with major on the italy map, the southern part of the map hasn't really been used in any scenario on Ukded2.

Zorin
24-04-2008, 15:44
Concrete base must be wheeler field the western airbase for the blues. Kaneohe is a grass airfield by the sea in the eastern most tip of the island.

Wheeler is often surrounded by high flying spitfires as it's quite close to Ewa, the primary red base and even closer to direct routes used by red fighters to most targets.

I agree with major on the italy map, the southern part of the map hasn't really been used in any scenario on Ukded2.

Sorry, my mistake, I wrote eastern eventhough I meant the concrete one in the west.. :wall: