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View Full Version : Reworking the old maps ....



Scrappy_D
09-06-2006, 19:34
Guys, Mapmakers especially ....

It has come to the attention of the chaps who maintain the existing map sets for both servers that there are currently too many maps in the current map cycles ... it is becoming more and more difficult to maintain these, even just a slight rule change is an awesome and tiresome job :(

Can I be bold and ask that you guys concerntrate on reworking some of the existing maps, especailly the less popular ones. Some of these we will probably be removing as we are in the process of working out a thinning down scheme and possibly introducing map subsets to try and make the servers more popular whilst reducing the amount of work for the map/server maintainers.

Cheers Chaps.

Scraps.

RAF_WhiteEagle
09-06-2006, 19:52
S!

U may kick Tunis map becouse its bit ot lagy. Novogrod should stay becouse many guys like this map. U may kick my Bob mission(Bob3). Smolensk2 map can stay.Channel43 may stay. Kotka map can stay.

So i think Kotka, Channel43, Smolensk2 and Novogrod should stay. Rest fo maps th i made u may delete.

LeVola
09-06-2006, 20:56
Tunis is Quake map, I dont like it. Sry if someone spend many hours making it....

Algorex
09-06-2006, 21:14
Smolensk2 needs rework, the plane set includes lend-lease planes that were not present at the time, also red ground targets need attention.

The desert and channel missions need to be looked, there's so many and they are all too similar.

One bold idea i came up is to remove the bonus plane system, it doesn't add that much to the experience, but does triple the amount of maps.

My 0.02 (add curency)

LeadSucker
10-06-2006, 14:32
I miss the old Finland map with Brewster and I16. Is it removed? A rewamp of that is truly welcome.

Zorin
11-06-2006, 00:20
No, it is in the circle. Played it yesterday or the day before yesterday.

If you give me maps you want to see reworked, just inform me.

NS-IceFire
12-06-2006, 00:46
UKD2 is currently running the same 6 or 7 maps. I've played Singapore a half dozen times in the last two weeks. A good map to be sure but I see it all the time. Very few Pacific maps a'tall and just one of the maps I've contributed over the months and years. I'm not upset or anything but the map choices are very few right now.

I'm curious as to what is actually running right now and then as to what happened to any of my maps.

Bismarck Sea
Tirpitz
AutumnStorm (updated)
Remagen
etc.

Seem to be missing some from the rotation. Let me know if I can help in any way to bring them back online or anything else. New scenarios...you name it!

Firelok
12-06-2006, 07:38
Will happily give some of the older maps a refresher,100,000 flight mile service or whatever. But..
1. We need a definitive list of the maps that need attention.
2. Any maps that have specific problems need identifying.
3. Those maps that need 'servicing' need to be apportioned out to those of us who are keen for a bit of refresher work.
I do think moving to a simpler mono-map style system will help everyones workload and prevent the 'loops' that have been happening allowing all maps to be played on a fairly regular basis.

NS-IceFire
13-06-2006, 22:14
I'm willing to create entirely new scenarios to replace old ones as well. If you folks do want to identify some and let me know I'll gladly step in, do my research on that front, and build an appropriate scenario.

I've been wanting to do a few East front scenarios but we cover most of them. We could definately revisit Kursk, Crimea, Stalingrad, Moscow and so forth. I think I'd also like to try and do the Philipeans 1944, Monte Casino (when the map becomes available), "what if" 1946 when the addon pack comes, redo Autumn Storm on the Manchuria map when that addon pack comes...uhh...yeah.

I've seen a few more of my maps on the list so its not quite as dire as I thought but its pretty dire some times of the day where it seems to be the same missions over and over and over again.

Firelok
15-06-2006, 13:44
I would like to volunteer for reworking Spain map. Maybe scattering the red forces a little to make things a little tougher for blues. Aside from the instant carpet bombing of the targets I've had some great dogfights here in these early planes in and out of the canyons.

Repoker
15-06-2006, 14:03
I can supply some nice spanish civil war skins for I153, I16 for the red and Bf109E7/B, Ju86, FW200 for the blues if anyone is interested :D

Scrappy_D
15-06-2006, 18:30
If anyone wants the zip files with all of uk1 and uk2 maps then use this link:
http://www.mikeh.me.uk/maps/

However you will need a username and password to access the dir, PM me for them. This is purely for security reasons ... as I'm sure the guys who made the maps wouldn't like them springing up on 'other' servers ;)

Zorin
16-06-2006, 02:11
Ok, I want to rework and tweak two maps. Midway and Malta. Both are great maps, but have some flaws, that should be eliminated.

Midway:

1. Blue carriers should be set asleep
2. Blue carriers should be not the main target for reds
3. We need to add limitations for the planes and loadouts
4. Blue targets need to be tweak aswell, Pretty mutch AAA overkill.

Malta:

1. Carriers set asleep, defence ships will be placed instead
2. Change the Spit Vb to a Seafire F.MKIII (as a MKIIc)with all loadouts restricted
3. Tweaking to plane and loadout limitations
4. Change the weather to good
5. Add new planes like P40E

General: Refurbish the airfields.

Nightshifter
16-06-2006, 09:25
Malta:

1. Carriers set asleep, defence ships will be placed instead
2. Change the Spit Vb to a Seafire F.MKIII (as a MKIIc)with all loadouts restricted
3. Tweaking to plane and loadout limitations
4. Change the weather to good
5. Add new planes like P40E

General: Refurbish the airfields.

I agree totally on the switch to the Seafire, I don't like having to ditch, landing at the neutral base on the blue side of the front loses you a plane and you also get captured most of the time. Be nice to land back at the carriers.

Firelok
16-06-2006, 12:05
Malta:The problem with the seafires is that this mission is trying to recreate the reinforcement of Malta's airforce by Spitfires.Historically taking off from a US carriers dangerously overcrowded with spitfires, flown by pilots who had never taken off from a carrier before. I suggest simply making the neutral base part of red territory.
This is one of those missions that works well and I have flown great team sorties for both sides.

Zorin
16-06-2006, 12:15
Well, after checking on the Seafire story I came across those reinforcment actions, but I simply don't think it was wise to make it into a dogfight mission in the first place. And you can't take away the island base from the blues, cause that way, no bomber has the slightest chance to survive a bomb run and return safely. There are always Spits around, coming home, respanwing or just lurking high to score an easy kill.

Algorex
16-06-2006, 12:34
Midway:

1. Blue carriers should be set asleep
2. Blue carriers should be not the main target for reds
3. We need to add limitations for the planes and loadouts
4. Blue targets need to be tweak aswell, Pretty mutch AAA overkill.


I always thought that the whole point of Midway was the destruction of Japanise carrier force. I do agree on the blue target issue, what propose is that the Midway atoll is left with little or no AAA allowing blues get the advantage over it and the bulk of the red air force is send from the carriers as in real battle, so to get the few medium bombers from midway to safely attack the fleet you'd need to bring in fighter cover from the carriers.

Zorin
16-06-2006, 12:54
You might be correct here Al, but again, this setup doesn't suit the ideal of a balanced dogfight map. Blues lost half their aircraft to bomb hits, nearby impacts or take off accidents, most caused by freezes and lag created by the carrier AAA firing at all the enemys around them. This can't be kept this way, especially if we want to restricted plane numbers.

Firelok
16-06-2006, 12:58
no bomber has the slightest chance to survive a bomb run and return safely. There are always Spits around, coming home, respanwing or just lurking high to score an easy kill.

This is exactly the same situation as the beaufighters have to deal with and the return journey is much longer.
Blues big disadvantage here is that killing aircraft carriers gives reds an airstart.
Switching off the carriers AAA and shifting them further away from the blue base and adding more cruisers and destroyers as specific targets would stop this.

Zorin
16-06-2006, 13:09
The sense behind the target placement for reds escapes me anyway, I have to admit. Who came up wih that?
Well and shifting the carriers around is really pointless, because blues have a airfield in the west and east, so the distance blues have to travel will always stay the same.
I'd just set the carriers asleep and put two or three light cruisers around as AAA cover.

Zorin
16-06-2006, 13:26
The new basic layout I have in mind.

http://www.rollenspiel.mirko-wilhelm.de/upload/Malta-map.jpg

The frontline and bases stay as they are, but the new target for reds will be a harbour in grid D4. The Aurora, as an italian cruiser, is the second target, along with some freighters. You know me, there'll be enough stuff around ;) The RoF of the Aurora artillery will be set low, but yet enough to scare the carrier born Spitfires a little. The range of their own defence isn't big enough to reach the harbour, so their is no need for adjustments.

Beaufighters will be MKVI, so no torps. Blue bombers will have a max load of 2x1000.

Zorin
16-06-2006, 15:05
Sorry JtD, I'm into this game since nine month now, so I have had no chance to know a thing about how things were in the past. But as we have new possibilities now, we should just put them to use and improve the maps we have. If any of my posts about Malta have offended you, I'm very sorry.


The map is very simple, 4 kb consisting of static planes, mainly. I don't think you need it?

That one I didn't get. Do you mean I'd just build it all on my own, without the original mission?

And you can send me the files, of course. Always good to see with what ideas fellow misssion builders come up with :)

Xiola
19-06-2006, 11:48
Hmmm , I am in two minds about this change.

1: I really love the map how it is.

2: Zorins changes look promising.

I think before you change too much on any map you should try flying both sides a lot Zorin. You are always blue whenever I see you on the server.

I suggest keeping anything which people already enjoy about the map. eg some like torping ships in beaufighters, some like attacking carriers in He111.

If you remove torps from red, then remove them from blue as well, or make reds ships secondary, not importanat target.

Zorin
19-06-2006, 15:56
It is not me wanting to ruin the fun for the red guys Xi, not allowing them to torp anymore, it is just historically incorrect. The Heinkel 111, however, was equipped with tropedos during that time period and so should have them.

But I can ban that option on UKded2, just like I did with the Beau, but on UKDed1 this doesn't take effect anyway, as it is not running with SC.

And check the map. The Heinkel bombers need to travel a minimum of 5 grids to get to the carriers, which would be the direct and pretty unsave way,cause they would be attacked by the red forces from the island and than get into the hands of the Seafires. Their chance of survival is really near zero, so I wouldn'T worry abou them to mutch.

The Beaus, with bombs, only need to travel 1 1/2 grids to get to their targets, which is really nothing compared to the blue bombers.

NS-IceFire
19-06-2006, 23:49
I think I missed why were using Seafire III's in this scenario. Isn't that a little too much for what blue has available to it? Seafire III is better than the Mark V by a small to medium amount. The re-arranged exhaust stacks and four blade propeller gives it a fair amount more performance.

I would instead recommend the actual plane that was being transported to Malta. The Spitfire Mark Vc 4x20mm cannon model. This was the type on the carrier decks.

Zorin
20-06-2006, 00:22
We placed it, so we can land on the landing carriers. And it is the F version not the L version. To represent a early Seafire.

Algorex
21-06-2006, 10:30
Ok then, now we have few of the old more popular maps updated maybe it's time to fix some of the "bulk" maps
I made a short list

Moscow
Motherland
Balta
Belgorod
Byelorussia
Crimea
Stalingrad
Prokhorov
Marianas
Finland

These are true vintage maps that i have played ~million times, they are pretty balanced but some have issues with target arrangements.

Firelok
21-06-2006, 11:48
Bismarck Sea
Tirpitz
AutumnStorm (updated)
Remagen
etc.


Well I'd like to see a revamped Bismark Sea, Remagen back in the cycle for sure.

To return to the first post of this thread we really need to decide which ones are going rather than update stuff that folks are jaded with.
Moscow that algorex mentions above almost always starts and there's a flurry of <vote commands which suggests to me that folks have seen enough of it. There may be others too, not to say any of these maps are poor or imbalanced I just think some of them have been flown too many times for any cosmetic or tweaking alterations to have an effect on popularity. Some of them need resting to be brought back later for that 'OOh not played this for ages' effect.