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NS-IceFire
10-09-2006, 02:34
Good map...the jet fighters make things a real challenge. I wonder if a P-63C could be added to help make things slightly more interesting for Red in trying to chase down the jets. The P-63C has the added advantage over most Russian fighters in having an effective elevator at speed and a high dive speed ability.

It shouldnt otherwise unbalance the map. Historically speaking the P-63 could have served here....records are sketchy, however, German AAA batteries reported during this period that unusual Airacobras were spotted. Its likely that these were P-63s.

LeadSucker
11-09-2006, 09:36
Good map...the jet fighters make things a real challenge. I wonder if a P-63C could be added to help make things slightly more interesting for Red in trying to chase down the jets. The P-63C has the added advantage over most Russian fighters in having an effective elevator at speed and a high dive speed ability.

It shouldnt otherwise unbalance the map. Historically speaking the P-63 could have served here....records are sketchy, however, German AAA batteries reported during this period that unusual Airacobras were spotted. Its likely that these were P-63s.Yes, it is a fun map. Maybe even add a few more 262's to the stock. They are usually lost quite fast. Many ground accidents, engines catching fire etc. Maybe an extra base for the 262's or maybe an airstart for the blue bombers at 1000 meters? It is often very crowded on the blue base and taking of with the 262's and the bombers is a complicated and lengthy affair.

The P63 seems like a great addition. Its ground pounding possibilities are also good. Takes a lot of bombs!

NS-IceFire
11-09-2006, 23:42
Isn't there another blue base to use? Definately a crowded base is not good for bomber formation setups or getting the jets up.

Maybe there needs to be another blue base...I'm sure there is another nearby airfield. I realize the concrete airbase was removed because its too close...

Firelok
12-09-2006, 11:07
Some good suggestions here I'll maybe look for another jet base somewhere, but more 262's and the Kingcobra easily added. :)

Firelok
12-09-2006, 21:00
262's were originally based in Berlin Gatow, an airfield in the west-southwest of Berlin.

I find it pretty hard to get the ground targets when flying red, many attack runs end up in front of a MK 108, the few who make it past get chewed by the Wirbelwinds and if they survive that there most likely is a FW high to make sure you do not rtb. It would certainly help to have some targets a bit further east, say instead of the city they defend the airfield? Just a few km, but they make a difference.
That first attack run has got to be against the Wirblewinds as main targets then it get's easier, the other target for reds which is further west doesn't have them but is protected by the tree-line to a certain extent.

NS-IceFire
12-09-2006, 23:52
I've had good success in the attack runs with the A-20, IL-2, and Pe-2. The key is to fly around the dogfight areas and come in at an angle. If the red fighters are doing their jobs then they are running interference for the blues enough that the bombers should get through.

Algorex
13-09-2006, 09:30
Circling a bit north and flying NoE gets me to the targets most of the time, as blue fighters tend to fly over the clouds and between the two bases.

LeadSucker
05-10-2006, 13:48
Something happened to this map? It is one of my favourites (used to hate late war fast planes :D) and it seemed to be at a different place in the maprotation last I checked. Maybe it was <vote'd away or <next'ed by an admin when I was going for a coffee?

NS-IceFire
06-10-2006, 03:34
I played it last on the weekend. Some guys try and vote it away some love it. I frankly can't understand any of them. Give me planes and let me fly! :)

I absolutely love the challenge of trying to bag a Me-262 in a prop fighter. Particularly in a Soviet prop fighter...the only one you have a chance in is the Yak-9UT. The La-7 I find just breaks up too quickly.

I'd love to see the P-63 added here...historical and gives another option to chase those jets.

LeadSucker
06-10-2006, 12:01
I find bagging a 262 is not to hard because they are quite vulnerable. Especially when used by noobs. :D They usually loose a lot of speed trying to get a low flying target. It is often possible to get quite close to them on an intersecting course. They 262 is big target and an engine hit is often enough to torch them.

The biggest problem is really that the 262 corrupt my screen.:( I get a lot of black sky and flickering of the screen when they are close. Very annoying. I have an ATI card.

Gordano
06-10-2006, 12:11
Maybe it was <vote'd away or <next'ed by an admin when I was going for a coffee?

Well you've got the admin rights to bring it back :)

Use the force......

LeadSucker
25-10-2006, 07:54
Anything happened to this map?

Flew it last night. Allt the Me262's was wasted very soon. A combination of runway accidents and noobs trying to turnfight with them. I didn't see any P63's either.

So please map magicians:

Add the P63.
Add more Me 262's. (maybe add the Jabo version?)
Let some bombers have airstart. (Pe2 and Ju 88?)
Move the 262's to a separate base further behind.
Anyway. It is a fun map. Especially when I get to fly the Yak 3P. :D

Firelok
25-10-2006, 08:46
Add the P63.
Add more Me 262's. (maybe add the Jabo version?)
Let some bombers have airstart. (Pe2 and Ju 88?)
Move the 262's to a separate base further behind.
Anyway. It is a fun map. Especially when I get to fly the Yak 3P. :D
-P63 can be added.
-a few More Me262's(too many and this threatens to make it a bitch map for red but the P63 might help a bit.one of blues' challenges here is to husband a very limited resource of jets.I'm not keen on adding the Me262-2a the round flight-time of such a fast plane will really alter the balance.)
-I think airstarts are real bad idea here, just imagine your Me262 pilot parked over an airstart waiting for next victim, it's easier to sneak off an airfield.
-Moving the 262's is an option certainly if there is a base.

Firelok
25-10-2006, 09:14
Ok, I went away had a look and a think and then made some changes.
There's another base SW of the current blue base this now has jets,jet bombers and the Do335 on it, plus the 109G6_late for close base defence. The Do can stay in until we get an Arado option maybe next month, there are 10 fighter 262's and 10 bomber 262s. The P63 has been added.

LeadSucker
25-10-2006, 15:53
Thx :fluffle:

Yellow 2
25-10-2006, 16:21
Wow Arado !! Thanks Firelok. :)

NS-IceFire
25-10-2006, 22:34
Ok, I went away had a look and a think and then made some changes.
There's another base SW of the current blue base this now has jets,jet bombers and the Do335 on it, plus the 109G6_late for close base defence. The Do can stay in until we get an Arado option maybe next month, there are 10 fighter 262's and 10 bomber 262s. The P63 has been added.
Sounds like a good change! Thanks! Looking forward to the Ar-234 in the new addon packs.

Zorin
13-12-2006, 16:54
Giving an airstart only two grids away from the western base is no good idea. Especially since the jets take some time to get up to speed. I can see lots of base camping and shooting of planes taking off.

Better look for a spot further west to set the airstart.

Firelok
13-12-2006, 19:53
Do you think that there are performance issues by having the action right over the centre of Berlin?
I'm surprised the Berlin/Oder maps work as well as they do to be honest and they aren't even near the built up area.

Sonko
13-12-2006, 21:51
There will be performance drop downs especially on slower PCs as there will be less game performance with many players online or many ground objects on the maps. But the player will have to live with that. Me too.

The only possibility to improve the game performance is to upgrade the own PC (especially when the graphics detail is already set to the minimum).

That is the hard truth...

Firelok
13-12-2006, 22:31
The hard truth is that some big heavily citied areas on maps are not useable for online gaming and the Berlin area is about as big as it gets. I envisage problems.
Icefire USAAF/RAFvsVVS thread (http://www.battle-fields.com/commscentre/showthread.php?t=11314) there have been discussions elsewhere about this potential issue.

Zorin
22-12-2006, 02:05
For the time being, could we add the Ta152C and the IL10 to the map?

Gordano
22-12-2006, 10:48
For the time being, could we add the Ta152C and the IL10 to the map?

Good suggestion,

Would also enable us to get a bit of an insight in to what is causing the lag/packet loss problems we experienced on the 1946 map and enable us to see if the TA152C and IL10 cause connection problems or whether it is only the jets.

LeadSucker
22-12-2006, 11:18
I used to like this map a lot but nowadays it is mainly about take a shot at a jet. They are easy to down with unexperienced pilots but a true nightmare in the hands of a more tactical thinking bloke.

Since I suggested to make life easier for the jets I now want to make it worse again. :o They used to blow up on the tarmac because it was so crammed. They now seem to survive in large numbers so that need to be compensated by turning down the allowed numbers...please. :)

Firelok
22-12-2006, 11:57
As well as adding the Arado to Berlin (instead of the Do335) I also added the IL-10 at the same time, when I flew it last night there was no IL-10 available.
Which is a bit odd, I might have mucked up the FtP transaction but I doubt it.
I'll look into it after re-installing my FtP etc.
*update*
The version of Berlin that's on the server definately has the IL-10 but it's not available. This craziness may also explain Leadsuckers 'Sky is Full of Jet's' complaint,Perhaps the plane limits are out the window too.
BTW here are the current Jet limits....
Ar-234B-2=12
Me-262A-2a=10

There used to be 6 Me262A-1s and 6 Me262A-2a and the Do335.
when I typed the planes command on red side I got the planes limits for blue
so I think old Server Commander is a bit 'tipsy' this week :)

Boemher
22-12-2006, 13:49
Can we have a few Ta 152 C on this map too please :)

Firelok
22-12-2006, 18:34
Maybe this map gets labeled Berlin46 do make sure no one mistakes it for a historical scenario? Majority of contenders did not see action at that time and place.
So really you would like to replace it entirely then?

NS-IceFire
22-12-2006, 21:55
I would suggest filling in the IL-10 and Ar-234 for the current Berlin map as those have some historical precedent for being there. We should do a new Berlin map, I'll even volunteer to do it as I love the map, based on the 1946 storyline with some of the new uber aircraft and probably lend lease B-29s/Tu-4s.

Firelok
23-12-2006, 14:02
But I figured on a map that features Ta-152, 109K-4C3, La-7B20, Yak-3P, Yak-9ut, Yak-9K, Do-335, P-63, Me-262 one could use the 46 label. This way you could legally :D throw in a few more rare/fantasy items.

109K,La7B20,Yak-3P,YAk-9UT.Yak-9K,Me262 have all been on this map for ages and replacing the Do335 with the Arado is a step towards reality really also I think adding the P-63 to balance out the increased number of jets is'nt unreasonable nor is adding an IL-10 that was used during these last war-months.
A whole new scenario focussing in on the Seelowe heights is what we need, without any jets at all but with limited IL-10s and maybe the Ta-152. The offline Sturmovik's over Manchuria campaign's section over Berlin is very intense indeed with a massive bombardment going over the heights a scary place to take an IL-10 low.

A 1946 map needs to be looked at as a separate entity really, I think what's been added is a lot of content that balances 'in itself' but isn't really suitable for inclusion piecemeal. A reinforced Kurland pocket might do well, no jet's for VVS but could try out the mixed propulsion crazies?