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Firelok
31-10-2006, 10:07
Some time ago Algorex raised this as a potential interesting map idea.
I must say the more I browse about this little known theatre of war the
more surprises get turned up. Some truly hideous flying conditions. (I found one pic of a PBY Catalina flipped on it's back by a gust.)
So spring 1943 might be a good time, USAAF forces are flying Warhawks,P38s P39s. Not found out anything about what the IJA were flying; Ki-61s, Zero's, Ki-43s?
Definately got to find a snowy map for this one;Murmansk again p'raps.

Algorex
31-10-2006, 10:52
I'm now 100% sure but aleutians were navy territory for the japanese and with the warm relations between the navy and army, it's likely that all they had was navy planes, so main fighter would be the zero.

I'd like this with a good snowstorm.

Firelok
31-10-2006, 16:34
H'mm thats a bit of a b*ugger cause Blues need more than the zero against these planes, if possible, a bit of variety could be sneaked in. I'm with you on the snowstorm idea 100% though mate.

Algorex
31-10-2006, 16:56
I got my inspiration from today's weather.

http://kuvat2.iltasanomat.fi/iltasanomat/iDoc/1258604-luntaluvassa468.jpg

Crazyclaws
31-10-2006, 19:06
I love to see more maps with rain, snow and storms. Fighting your own plane on your way to target....hhhmmm. It doesn't have to be all sunshine and nice weather.

Zorin
31-10-2006, 21:47
As we all don't have high-end machines, the only map that might work, with a big question mark, with a snow storm would be that winter russian one. There is not that mutch detail going on, but otherwise it has no coast...

But as we all saw on my Murmansk map, it doesn't mix much with bad weather conditions. At it wasn't even snow, just bad.

We can try it, but I don't see it being the new standard for our maps.

Firelok
01-11-2006, 01:51
We can try it, but I don't see it being the new standard for our maps.
Yer never know until you try is my motto, I think careful control of the number and type of added objects it might work, Murmansk already has some detailed airfields so maybe a saving there. Murmansk also has seaplane bases Catalina flying boats might be cool and the Zero flying boat. Plus this was a real backwater of the Pacific theatre and really the USA didn't have access to the latest planes it was using elsewhere, which is possibly a leveller for blues.

Zorin
01-11-2006, 03:11
Blues would have: A6M2 "Zero", A6M2-N "Rufe", D3A1 "Val" and Nakajima B5N2

Reds would have: P-40C/E, A20C (replacement for B-26A) and PBN-6

Or do you have any other data?

Firelok
01-11-2006, 09:33
Blues would have: A6M2 "Zero", A6M2-N "Rufe", D3A1 "Val" and Nakajima B5N2

Reds would have: P-40C/E, A20C (replacement for B-26A) and PBN-6

Or do you have any other data?
No A20 (I just can't face putting an A20 on another map) the nomad has an enormous bombload 4x1000lbs but no self-sealing tanks or crew armour.
But as for data it's gut reaction that blues should have KI-61/A6M3/Rufe/Betty(or Sally's if we get them.)/H8K1.
Reds P38/P40E/P400/PBN.
This seems like a mix that would be fun.

Zorin
01-11-2006, 12:47
The P-38E should have any loadout exceeding the two 500lbs, besides it is already on an advantage with its 1425hp over the real 1150hp.

The P400 is fine with me. Always found them to be a challenge to fly, but still rather fun. Once downed 2 109s and a FW in one sortie back in the good old keyboard days. ;)

The A6M3 might not be historically correct, but needed. But as Algore already said, the IJN was in charge and therefor there were no Ki61s.

NS-IceFire
01-11-2006, 22:49
Its a shame Gibbage wasn't able to get enough cockpit info for the P-38F (I've looked inside the restored Glacier Girl and the cockpit is a fair bit different) as that'd be a huge boon to these early scenarios.

Restricted loadout should do. I'd suggest possibly including both A6M3 and A6M2-21 to keep things interesting. Pilots can select the one they like the most. Some may favour the A6M2-21 for its even easier handling. Not sure.

Firelok
02-11-2006, 01:05
The A6M3 might not be historically correct, but needed. But as Algore already said, the IJN was in charge and therefor there were no Ki61s.
I think the Ki61 is needed too.

Zorin
02-11-2006, 16:51
At which point of the Aleutians campaign is this mission supposed to take place, Fire?

Firelok
02-11-2006, 18:04
~This is turning into some kind of poison chalice~

Zorin
02-11-2006, 18:28
Why is that?

Firelok
07-11-2006, 05:46
I've found a better source of info about the Aluetians campaign here...http://www.kadiak.org/timeline.html
Early 43 might work, lots of AI bombers/big flying boats might be involved.
P40E/P39D2(or the D1??,N1??)/P38J(2 500lbs only)/B17/B24/PBN (lots of red targets ground and shipping)

A6M3/A6M-21/A6M2(floatplane)/H8K/G4M1 (i'd like to see the A6M5 with the
A6M3 too for parity's sake.)

Current problems with history, US/Canadian ground forces landed unnopposed on Kiska Island in 1943 so the nice light bombing/strafing ground targets on a beach-head I added for blues to shoot at may not be acceptable for some, I think it's prefferable than just ship targets for blues (yawn)
P38J's vs A6M3s,A6M-21's seems a little unfair to me. However the weather might really play into a zero's hands suiting a more manouverable plane and the P38 is big which might help. The Weather settings is appalling and looks good over targets, I am becoming marginally more encouraged. :wall:

Happy
07-11-2006, 11:11
I love to see more maps with rain, snow and storms. Fighting your own plane on your way to target....hhhmmm. It doesn't have to be all sunshine and nice weather.

more hiding in the clouds and more difficulty in gunnery.
bring it on, got my cold weather clothes rdy :p

Firelok
07-11-2006, 17:56
Beached US/Canadian Forces.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e150/firelokc/aleu2.jpg
Offshore support ships
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e150/firelokc/aleu1.jpg

NS-IceFire
07-11-2006, 23:03
I've found a better source of info about the Aluetians campaign here...http://www.kadiak.org/timeline.html
Early 43 might work, lots of AI bombers/big flying boats might be involved.
P40E/P39D2(or the D1??,N1??)/P38J(2 500lbs only)/B17/B24/PBN (lots of red targets ground and shipping)

A6M3/A6M-21/A6M2(floatplane)/H8K/G4M1 (i'd like to see the A6M5 with the
A6M3 too for parity's sake.)

Current problems with history, US/Canadian ground forces landed unnopposed on Kiska Island in 1943 so the nice light bombing/strafing ground targets on a beach-head I added for blues to shoot at may not be acceptable for some, I think it's prefferable than just ship targets for blues (yawn)
P38J's vs A6M3s,A6M-21's seems a little unfair to me. However the weather might really play into a zero's hands suiting a more manouverable plane and the P38 is big which might help. The Weather settings is appalling and looks good over targets, I am becoming marginally more encouraged. :wall:
I'd say go for the A6M5 and don't worry about it too much. After the A6M3-32 came out they had to come up with a new version which was somewhat similar to the A6M2-21 and A6M5 for wings and fuel tankage. The A6M5 isn't a perfect stand in as the A6M3-33 but its not too bad. Performance isn't all that different either but it gives the Zero pilots some options. They really are lovely fighters to fly with plenty of agility and firepower.

Firelok
10-11-2006, 19:08
THis is all completed and ready for server testing, vile weather and everything. :o


REDS
P38J ~ordinance limited to 2x500~
P40E
P39D-1
A20G ~will be A20C soon ;) ~
B17-E
B24-J
PBN-1 (floatplane)


BLUES
A6M2-21
A6M3
A6M5
G4M1
B5N2
A6M2-N (floatplane)
H8K (floatplane)

Reds have better bombers but larger targets and further to fly than blues.

This is called Aleutians.mis

NS-IceFire
19-11-2006, 18:25
I don't think the G4M's are blowing up because they are too big...they are because people are dropping bombs.

P-38J needs to be more limited. Maybe 15. A6M5 to 30. Keep the early B-17 and get rid of the B-24J which is a bit too tough for the Zeros. Add the Ki-61-Ko.

That'd be my suggestions.

LOVE the map...the snow is great, the weather looks fantastic and the layout of the area is fun. I had some great times with the P-39 and P-38 as well as the Zero and managed to get quite a few bad guys on either side.

JtD says the A6M is hardly fair except he easily downed my P-38 :)

Crashin'Sakai
19-11-2006, 18:27
I recently found a book written by former soldiers of 10th Montain Division which went to Kiska, Aleutians. A chapter is devoted to Kiska (I only browsed thru), and the author said they could not even pee without wetting their face because of gale wind.

Edit : 10th Mountain Division is based in NY state.

Yellow 2
19-11-2006, 18:46
Just finished flying on the Aleutians map for the first time and I'd just like to say that as far as the look of it is concerned its a fantastic map. The balance of weather conditions with snow and turbulence down low then cloud and breaking out into sunshine higher up really add something to the map.

A real change to the weather conditions we usually fly in. :)

NS-IceFire
19-11-2006, 19:55
Just finished flying on the Aleutians map for the first time and I'd just like to say that as far as the look of it is concerned its a fantastic map. The balance of weather conditions with snow and turbulence down low then cloud and breaking out into sunshine higher up really add something to the map.

A real change to the weather conditions we usually fly in. :)
Thats the spirit! The snow scared at least a few of the usual point whore suspects away...I guess its much harder to get high scores in bad weather :)

Its far more interesting to have some bad weather alongside the better weather. Makes things more interesting...and REALLY makes you appreciate the visibility when you do get back into the good weather. In this map you strain to see the other guy. Merlin and I had a fight with a Zero and we couldn't see his pale green against the huge waves and blowing snow.

Its a great map Firelok. Some tweaks probably required to get the rest of the folks in line but I'm very impressed!

Crashin'Sakai
19-11-2006, 20:03
Is this in UK1 too? Wish to fly.

Firelok
19-11-2006, 20:18
Uh, I think this needs fixing.

1st) Blue planes blow up on the runway because the G4M is too big.
2nd) Please insert static cameras.
3rd) Four engined bombers are near impossible to kill with anything the Japanese side has. Unless I am in the bomber, that is.
4th) P-38J vs A6M is hardly balanced.
5th) Ships AAA of blue ships seems to be too strong.
6th) Awfully laggy (no freezes for me, though). Planes keep jumping all over my screen.

Targets itself seem to be nice, but I couldn't see much with all that snow.
This could so easily be summed up as don't bother please see my earlier reference to this being a poison chalice. :wall:
Yet opposite to your undeniably hostile reaction are the other more positive reactions put down above, for this reason I shall implement a number of changes, however not having the snow and making gross changes to the planeset seems pointless to me. Anyway I'm glad I've tried this even if it's a fail.

Firelok
19-11-2006, 22:59
Ok my thoughts on this are...
The Ki-61 Ko gives blues a bit more hitting power in the air and a 500kg bombload and the only way to stop the GM4's from exploding on the runway is not to have them so I decided to reduce the targets for both sides to one objective (adding some destroyers to both sets.) and removing the 'Fleet' objectives.These are probably the one that are most difficult to find also. So no fleet means no need for GM4s/H8K1s or the PBYs and the single target (without any battleships or cruisers) means that the B-17/B-24 are not neccessary. Result is no AI planes that are hard to shoot up for Blues, I balanced the bombloads available for each side more closely by restricting the largest A20G bombloads(this is best I can do before the A20C shows up.)
I've removed the part of the brief that states 'Use Static Cameras' so no-one can expect them to be there when they are not, again both targets have lights or fires nearby.(the fire is the first visible object for me when attacking red landing ground, this appears a quarter of a grid away.)
So regardless of what I said earlier, I figured wholesale changes to the planes /targets were neccessary once the GM4's were removed. The other alternative was to launch the GM4's via airstart but this put the planes right in the middle of the cloud layer and also seem far too much of an advantage.
One change has led to another, to another, to another...
Anyway hope these changes make this more acceptable and haven't compromised anything that some folks liked about the first version.
I've uploaded this version BTW.

Firelok
20-11-2006, 01:04
Is this in UK1 too? Wish to fly.
Sorry Crashin I've no idea at all how to make FBD freindly maps, I've got that used to the way Server Commander does things.

Crashin'Sakai
20-11-2006, 04:19
No problem, extra motivation to learn pit-on ! (I did off-line campaign of Aleutian and it was quite unique.)

Firelok
20-11-2006, 18:00
I've tried very hard to reproduce the 'G4M explosion problem' on my own but not got it to happen, it's odd that A20s, B25's Beau's etc can launch from the test runways but there is a problem with the Betty. Anyway this is a moot point now, hope the changes work out for everyone.

NS-IceFire
21-11-2006, 00:04
I still think there was a guy doing that on purpose JtD. Three or four of us sitting there...not G4M's touching at all. Boom. One guy blows up and takes the rest of us down or does damage.