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Zorin
24-12-2006, 13:43
Red

I-16type18
Il-2_1940_Late
Il-2_1941_Late
MiG-3
TomahawkMkIIb
Pe-2series1
TB-3_4M-17
Yak-1
Yak-7B

Blue

Bf-109E-7
Bf-109F-4
He-111H-2
HurricaneMkI

G_50
Ju-87B-2
MC-200series3
MC-202_III

Suggestions?

Yellow 2
24-12-2006, 14:26
On an historical note if this is taking place in 1941, before Pearl Harbour, would the Tomahawk feature in a Soviet line up at that time ? If it is there to balance the map then I don't mind as I rather like it.

As for the Blues what about replacing the F4 with the F2 and then standing back and waiting for all the complaints about fire power or rather lack of it. :D Is the Hurricane MK1 there to represent those flown by the Finnish airforce? If it is is it appropriate for this front?

Just some quick thoughts. :)

Zorin
24-12-2006, 14:34
Tomahawks were delivered to Russia in mid 1941 and this is taking place in fall. So I guess it is about right.

But why should there be Finnish Hurri MkIs in Ukraine??

Yellow 2
24-12-2006, 14:50
But why should there be Finnish Hurri MkIs in Ukraine??

That was what was puzzleing me to. If they are not being flown by the Finnish airforce I couldn't think of another nation that used them and would still appear for the Blue side.

Anyway it looks like a good line up with plenty of choice. What sort of ground targets would appear for the ground pounders?

Zorin
24-12-2006, 14:53
Now I got what you are at. The Hurricane MK I is representing captured planes of the Ukraine airforce. ;)

Reds targets will be river barges and troop convoys and blues will have to destroy tanks and an evacuation airfield.

Firelok
24-12-2006, 14:57
I'm not well up on the deployment of Axis aircraft but Hurri Mk1 is an unusual addition, where there IAR's in the Ukraine?
as an alternative...


Il-2_1940_Early
MiG-3
Pe-2series1
TB-3_4M-17
Yak-1
LaGG (earliest)

Blue

Bf-109E-7
Bf-109F-2
He-111H-2

IAR 80b

G_50
Ju-87B-2
MC-200series3




Don't have the i-16, use the early LaGG.(if we have i-16s that's all you'll see and we have a lot of i-16 maps too.)
I think the fieldmod IL2 (IL2 1941_Late) is a bit early here. I think using the earliest IL2's is a good idea.
They might have sent Tomahawks but they were probably over the skies of
Leningrad along with Hurricanes sent by Britain.
If your worried about the LaGG being too tough leave the 109F4 in.
Just use Yak1.If you have the MC-202_III the G50 and MC-200 won't be used.

One last thought, we won't mind simple airfields. I doubt either side was living out of more than a few tents. :)
good luck with this, looking forwards to a Kiev map, cool. :)

Zorin
24-12-2006, 15:26
I'm not well up on the deployment of Axis aircraft but Hurri Mk1 is an unusual addition, where there IAR's in the Ukraine?
as an alternative...



Don't have the i-16, use the early LaGG.(if we have i-16s that's all you'll see and we have a lot of i-16 maps too.)
I think the fieldmod IL2 (IL2 1941_Late) is a bit early here. I think using the earliest IL2's is a good idea.
They might have sent Tomahawks but they were probably over the skies of
Leningrad along with Hurricanes sent by Britain.
If your worried about the LaGG being too tough leave the 109F4 in.
Just use Yak1.If you have the MC-202_III the G50 and MC-200 won't be used.

One last thought, we won't mind simple airfields. I doubt either side was living out of more than a few tents. :)
good luck with this, looking forwards to a Kiev map, cool. :)

During 1941 only 1 or 2 squadrons were equipped with IAR80 and mostly in the south, Odessa etc., but as it is a rare sight I wouldn't mind to add her.

As you might have guessed I don't have a problem with removing the I16, just put in it as most feel it is a must to have early in the east.

LaGG and F2, that doesn't mix much. Like shooting at a tank with snowballs ;) Should be the F4 if we go for the LaGG.

Why no Yak 7B or MC202? I think we should give either side some variety to choose from. Doesn't hurt the balance to have them I'd say.

And for the IL2s, I don't mind having the early version.


Red

Il-2_1940_Early
MiG-3
LaGG Series 4
Pe-2series1
TB-3_4M-17
Yak-1
Yak-7B

Blue

Bf-109E-7
Bf-109F-4
He-111H-2

G_50
Ju-87B-2
MC-200series3
MC-202_III
IAR 81a

Firelok
24-12-2006, 19:51
no-one's going to use the MC200series 3 if theres a MC202 III so don't bother is my thought (trying to keep it as neat as possible)
the Hurri's is the same really it's a nice idea but would they have bothered using captured sub-standard planes?
indeed LaGG vs F4.
My suggestions are aimed at keeping the total planeset to a minimum, I'd have IAR's rather than Hurri I's. No i-16s its a bit dull. Again with the Yak's the Yak7 is a pig to fly it's heavier guns with rockets enabled make it an interesting alternative but I'm assuming the rockets won't be an option so just keep the Yak 1 which was much more common.

Algorex
25-12-2006, 12:53
At the time of the first battle of Kiev, there were three italian divisions in the eastern front all under the german eleventh army, fighting in southern ukraine. If the italians would had any planes on the front at that time i'm pretty sure they didn't take part in the action near kiev.

Intrestingly when mussolini sent more troops in the the eastern front in july 42 the italian army in russia only had 64 planes in it's ranks.

In short: No italian planes in kiev, they were busy with malta and the RAF.

ForkTailedDevil
25-12-2006, 13:36
So the Hurri's are Romanian?? Didn't they have some if I remember right in one of their offline campaigns you fly them.

Zorin
25-12-2006, 14:32
Bottom line: Back to the boring old Moscow plane set that people didn't like in the first place *sigh* And as we won't have interesting targets sights, this mission will have not a single point of attraction, lets screw it.

Boemher
25-12-2006, 17:25
On a side note not directly related, Id rather fly a Hurricane than any of the other early war aircraft, the only other attractive type are the Mc 202 and IAR 81 for Axis. Bf 109s are boring as are I-16s. Over the last 3 and a half years ive had my fill of 109 vs early war VVS.

slm
25-12-2006, 19:37
Bottom line: Back to the boring old Moscow plane set that people didn't like in the first place *sigh* And as we won't have interesting targets sights, this mission will have not a single point of attraction, lets screw it.

Have you considered using this map for 1943 events when Germans are in defense?

Firelok
25-12-2006, 22:24
Bottom line: Back to the boring old Moscow plane set that people didn't like in the first place *sigh* And as we won't have interesting targets sights, this mission will have not a single point of attraction, lets screw it.

Let them eat Sevastopol...ha.

LaGG's,Mig's vs 109F2's,HurriI's seems pretty interesting to me. I do sympathise with the disillusionment though, should we form a Union and go on strike?

Sonko
26-12-2006, 00:08
Just by the way: I think it is extremely hard for the LaGG to shoot down some 109's because the LaGG is sooooo unmaneuverable compared to the 109. Sure, it has great firepower but how to use it when the 109's are glued at its 666? It will expect heavy teamwork and a good timing to bring them down. But I don't know an axis aircraft that has got similar abilities as the LaGG....
Does anyone of you know a good match for the LaGG in 1 vs 1?

Regards, Sonko, degraded to offline pilot:o

Sonko
26-12-2006, 00:15
Have you considered using this map for 1943 events when Germans are in defense?
This could be a good idea to bring up later models of the LaGG because I hardly see any of them in the sky and I miss them somehow...
Also the later models aren't so bad when they face 109G-6's instead of the G-2 or F-4.
It is also a pity that its 23mm cannon seems to be forbidden on every map. This gun enabled would be a good reason to choose the LaGG for the next flight and c'mon, this gun isn't a danger to the map's balance!:mp5:

Cheers, Myself:)

Firelok
26-12-2006, 02:37
seems to be forbidden on every map.
This Vya23mm is one of those guns that make people unnaturally angry so it appears on only a couple of maps (Kuban and Stalingrad.) with a limited number of planes, it's usually overlooked. As for the LaGG in general it's quite tough but slow in a dogfight and falls apart in a dive, primarily it's singled out for being too sturdy.
Trying not not make half the people angry whilst the other half is overjoyed is one of the hard things about making maps. If you have the time look at some of the enormous threads generated by map discussions over planesets.

I've got to say that there will be some really won't like the idea of the i-185 on any maps because they just weren't used in the war,really.

NS-IceFire
26-12-2006, 04:53
I did notice recently that the LaGG-3's DM seems to have been weakened somewhat. Fires are now very common.

Zorin
26-12-2006, 12:07
For the real battles of 1943 in the Kiev area it would need to be a winter map... Airfields are placed inappropriately for a dogfight server, so you'll always end up around Kiev if you need more than one small airfield for each side.


Blue

Bf-109 G-6
FW-190 A-5
Bf-110 G-2

He-111 H-6
Ju-87 D-3
Ju-88 A-4

Red

La-5
Yak-1B
Yak-9
P-39 N-1
LaGG-3 Series 35


A-20 C
Pe-2 Series 110
Il-2M series 1

Firelok
26-12-2006, 13:38
You should still fight for the 1941 idea Zorin because we have shed-loads of eastern front 1943 maps.

Orel
Charkov
Kuban
Citadel
Orsha
Anapa
While we do have 3 or 4 1941 eastern front maps most have been flown too much and are found boring now, i.e. Sevastopol ; Smolensk2, Byelorussia. Not really because of any flaws but just become too familiar I think.

slm
26-12-2006, 14:58
1941 or 1943, new map anyway. :) I suppose you could use temporary air fields in some areas if there aren't many in some part of the map. Most of the map seems quite flat, so there are plenty of suitable places.

Zorin
27-12-2006, 14:58
Just found out that the Hurri I was used by the Romanian airforce along with the Bf109 E3 and IAR80. BUT all the romanain planes were used in th south of Ukraine, around Odessa etc.

JLi
29-12-2006, 16:51
Hi,
I enjoy also about early plane sets. I just finished my (own :) ) Christmas present Osprey's Romanian Aces of WW2. I got thought that there would be interesting plane set ups for southern front battles 1941:
Blue
Bf 109E4 or E/B representing E-3 models used
Hurricane Mk I
P.11c
IAR 80

Red side
I-16
I-153
Mig-3
Yak-1 and Lagg-3 (maybe and limited)

but now to the original topic about plane set up for Kiev autumn 1941.
(only fighters)
Blue
Bf 109E-4/B
Bf 109E-7/B
Bf 109F-2
Bf 109F-4

Red
I-16 tip 18 and 24
I-153
Mig-3
Mig-3ud
Lagg-3 series 4 (limited)
Yak-1 (very limited)

and that's it.

Sorry no Tomahawk before November. check article from attached link
http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/romanenko/p-40/index.htm

S!
JLi