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Sonko
05-01-2007, 20:25
I have been trying out the full mission builder for the first time and I have created a scenario located south-south-west of Lvov dated 1941.

I don't know how to set the mission and target thing, but the reds have some blue troops to destroy in a small village, a column of tanks and cars and a train / station.

Blues have to destroy several columns, a barrack square and a harbor at one of the sidearms of the Dnestr river.

So if any of the admins are interested I can e-mail the mission when I have received an e-mail adress by PM or so.

I'm unable to attach any screenshots because I don't know how to do so.

Ah, and not to forget:
The planeset consists of
Red
-LaGG-4
-2 different IL-2's
-Mig3 with cannons
-Yak-7
-I-153 with cannons

Blue
-ME109E-4/-7B/-7Z
-ME109F-2/-4
-Stuka
-HE111

Greetings Sonko

Firelok
05-01-2007, 20:52
http://www.battle-fields.com/commscentre/showthread.php?t=12203
Veta has made a nice stickied thread about our submissions proceedure
and here is a thread about how to make an .ini file for use with server commander.
Look forwards to seeing your efforts.

p.s. an online image hosting service such as Photobucket or Flickr
can be used to keep images for sticking in our forum threads,
I'm sure we've got a thread about doing that too :)

Once you've got going I'll try and give as much help as I can, Also I'm
sure the other members of our community as well as myself will answer
any questions you want to post here in the genral mapmakers forum.

Sonko
07-01-2007, 01:54
Alright, I have created an account on photobucket and I hope it will work.

I have nearly this mission, it is called Lvov41 and it is dated 1941.
I don't know if the setup is 100% historical, maybe some of you more experienced mapmakers could give some advises.

At first I will post a picture with an overwiev of the area.
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r79/Anarchrist/overwiewfinal.jpg?t=1168134603

Hm, how can I see the picture without needing to click on that link? :confused:

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r79/Anarchrist/overwiewfinal.jpg

Ah,I just figured it out!

Here is the "historical" background:
Blues want to take Lvov, located north of the red base. The only thing between the blues and Lvov are the Reds which (gramatically correct?) have to be defeated. Reds have launched a tank offensive to prevent the Blues to get there and to throw them back to where they came from.

Sonko
07-01-2007, 03:12
Okay, here I have listed the actual planeset:

[PlanesArmy1]
HurricaneMkIIbMod
I-153P
Il-2_1940_Early
Il-2_1941_Early
LaGG-3series4=8xRS82
MiG-3-2xShVAK=10
Pe-2series1=30;2fab500;2fab5002fab250
Yak-7A=6xRS82

[PlanesArmy2]
Bf-109E-4
Bf-109E-7
Bf-109E-7Z
Bf-109F-2=15
Bf-109F-4=10
He-111H-2=30
Ju-87B-2

At first I wanted to leave out the Bf109F-4 and concentrate on the Emil series but then I would have had to leave out the Yaks too because of their strong armament.

I also thought about leaving out the Pe-2 because it might be too whatever, but I think with a reduced bomb load it would be okay.
I also considered the IL-2 as main bomber/GA-plane for Reds.

Sonko
07-01-2007, 03:46
This is the blue HQ:
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r79/Anarchrist/HQblue.jpg

This picture shows the red barracks:
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r79/Anarchrist/barracksred.jpg

This is the blue trainstation:
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r79/Anarchrist/stationblue.jpg

this is the red trainstation, more cars will be found left but the picture ends there:
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r79/Anarchrist/stationred.jpg

Sonko
07-01-2007, 03:52
This is a blue column:
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r79/Anarchrist/columnblue.jpg

This is a red column:
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r79/Anarchrist/columnred2.jpg

This is a shot of the red harbor:
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r79/Anarchrist/harborred.jpg

And at last a shot which I couldn't leave out, it is at the red airbase:
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r79/Anarchrist/airfieldred.jpg

Now I would like to hear what you think about it.
I have already created a .ini file for server commander, I will create a FBD file when I know how to do that.

Sonko

Firelok
07-01-2007, 13:02
I've uploaded this map for testing onto UkDed2. It's called Lvov41.mis

NS-IceFire
07-01-2007, 15:06
Hey, looks good man! I'm very curious to see this in action...my only concern would be the distance between bases. I think you need to try it in action to really see how that goes.

Sonko
07-01-2007, 17:01
Thank you Firelok and NS-IceFire!

I have tested the map on my pc at home, here are my results:

It is possible for a Bf109E-7B to destroy the very south car column in one sortie.

It takes about ten minutes from one base to the other going at 450 km/h at 500m alt.

With the slowest plane, the Stuka, I have listed it a bit more in detail with full loadout:

From take-off to 1.5 km alt (cloud hight) - 3 min
Time to the border when climbed to 1.5 km and 300 km/h - 3 min
From the border to the target, same alt and speed - 3 min
On the way back til strafed a car column on the way, at ~500 m, evading Flak - 4 min
Continuing to border at 300 km/h at 500 m - 2 min
Continuing to base, landed - 9 min

24 minutes total time
_________
Results:
20 cars
1 ship
1 AAA

over all 800 points scored

The nine minutes from the border back to base were a bit boring but the points you can get make it good.

Sonko
07-01-2007, 23:18
Alright, the result of the map test was a good one. But I will move especially the red targets somewhat to the south. The IL-2 with the big cannons will be removed aswell as the rocket option of the Tschaika. I will also set the front lines a step closer to the targets to make it more possible to return home and not getting captured.

If there are any other things that you noticed while playing this map just tell me :).

Sonko

MrAsh
07-01-2007, 23:45
AAA fire too strong over targets (we were flying blue)

I lost elevators before I had even started my bomb run and algores He111 exploded middair! Maybe less and smaller calibre?

:D

Algorex
08-01-2007, 00:05
You could do a bit of "uncannoning" on the red plane set, i mean i-153p, mig-3 2xshvak are both extremely rare birds. 52 shvak migs and 8 shvak i-153s were produced. You'd still have the field-mod hurri with two cannons and the yaks with one.

Kat
08-01-2007, 00:13
On the AA front, the general guide I was given was 2-3 ( depending on the size 20mm and an 88mm) over targets depending on the size. Remember we really want the kills to be got mainly by the enemy aircraft not the AA fire unless they are vulching.

Try to avoid bofor's except for airfield anti-vulching.

MrAsh
08-01-2007, 00:28
the target clusters are fairly close in that square though so in reality we were hit with 2-3 88mm's and plenty of smaller calibre. the range on the 88's is massive! a diving JU88 would have stood more chance but the heinkel was suicide :(

Zorin
08-01-2007, 00:31
I'm still confused. This is a 6x4 map and nobody complains about the flight time??

Sonko
08-01-2007, 03:18
Til now I have converted some tanks into stationary objects so that they won't shoot anymore. I also removed some Flak guns.

The red harbor/military installation is now located at Drogobych.

The borders are slightly moved towards the troops.

I added the Ju88 for the blue team and removed the Bf109E-4.

I changed the Mig-3-2xShVAK to the Mig-3ud.
I removed the IL-2_1941_Early.
I changed the I-153P to the I-153M62.
I added the Mig-9FS.

The rockets are removed completely.

Firelok
08-01-2007, 03:19
I'm still confused. This is a 6x4 map and nobody complains about the flight time??
Sonko's already agreed to shift the targets to shorten the flight-times this afternoon when we test flew this.
My decision to upload this wasn't affected by the flight times but I did think 'I wonder how much people will moan.' I've had to refuse 2 maps over the last six months on the grounds of flight-time (plus other issues) and didn't enjoy doing it one bit. This was within the maximum I would accept regards flight-times.
My thoughts on this map are swap the i-153P's for i-153 M53s (withour rockets) and add the basic MiG 3 (without rockets or pods) limit the total number of Hurricane Field Mods to 25 which equals the total of 109F's at the moment.

Algorex
08-01-2007, 06:21
I added the Mig-9FS.


Nice one, mate

MrAsh
08-01-2007, 09:18
sounds good sonko can't wait to try it out again...

:)

Sonko
08-01-2007, 18:02
Here I have posted a new overview of the area.
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r79/Anarchrist/overviewcorrected.jpg

I have made some slight changes to the objects located at the airfields and added the Il-2_1940_Late.

I removed the Mig-9FS because it seemed to be a little bit too slow for this map ;)

Here are some shots of the new red targets, photographed out of a Mig-3ud:
A train station:
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r79/Anarchrist/stationred-1.jpg

A barracks and harbor complex:
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r79/Anarchrist/installationred.jpg

And a large transport column:
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r79/Anarchrist/transportsred.jpg

Firelok
08-01-2007, 18:53
This updated version is available on server two for testing... :)

Sonko
08-01-2007, 23:01
I have corrected some blue tanks (stationary armor) into stationary objects. I think this was the last change.

Algorex
08-01-2007, 23:09
Few more F4s perhaps, make the ships silent, the AAA from them is lethal.

MrAsh
08-01-2007, 23:34
I think its hard against the F4's, the largish flight time mean that all fighters have plenty of time to get height, when they meet they are well over 3000m where things start getting dodgy for the russian planes..

Just wondering why Yak7 and not Yak1?

Firelok
09-01-2007, 00:08
I've been having a closer look at this latest version and if it was just the ships firing I don't think that would be too bad (and make them a first pass target)
but there are lots of active T60s (over 8) in that immediate area and the T60 has a rapid fire cannon (not unlike some sort of mini-bofors) rather than a larger calibre tank round. It's the T60s that are throwing up a blanket of red tracer as you approach these targets. The ships are R.O.F. 5 or 6 and are all Rookies so their bark is probably worse than their bite.

Sonko
09-01-2007, 17:27
Now there are only two active red tanks left I think, all other tanks are passive.

I have choosen the Yak7 because for me it is nice to see. Many other maps have the Yak1, that's why I think it is boring to see only the Yak1 flying around. According to il2 Compare v. 4.07m the Yak7 is a little bit better than the Yak1, so no problem about it at all.

As I flew this map on red I didn't have any problems with blue fighters, well this was maybe because I didn't face any of the Bf109F series, all the 109's I met were Emils. And the LaGG is not so bad when you have a wingman and stay fast all the time, it wasn't that hard to me.

And the thing with the flak, well I don't like it to stay in a flak protected area for a long time, so I drop my bomb, try to hit the flak guns at first and then I leave the area. Maybe I try to hit some weak targets before going to cover the troops of my side but it depends on the situation.

Firelok
09-01-2007, 18:29
I've added this map to the cycle for UKDed2 after Okinawa.

Sonko
09-01-2007, 18:40
Thank You!:)

Sonko
16-04-2007, 20:34
Played this today, some improvements seem to be needed.

Algore requested bigger bombs and I think I could remove the Hurricane.
Replacing the Yak-7A with the Yak-1 will give more historical accuracy.
Also the BF109-E7/Z seems not to be used so I could remove it.

And there were some problems with destroying all targets because there were none left on the map although SC told us differently, so changing the target percent from 90% to 80% might improve things a bit.

Any other thoughts?

Firelok
17-04-2007, 02:35
RED
HurricaneMkIIbMod=25
Il-2_1940_Early
Il-2_1940_Late
LaGG-3series4=8xRS82
MiG-3ud=6xRS-82
I-153M62=8xRS82
Pe-2series1=30,2fab500;2fab5002fab250
Yak-7A=6xRS82
BLUE
Bf-109E-7
Bf-109E-7Z
Bf-109F-2
Bf-109F-4=20
He-111H-2
Ju-87B-2
Ju-88A-4=15;18xSC50_2xSC500;2xSC500;4xSC500;2xAB500;4xAB500;2xSC1000;2xAB1000;2xSC1800;2xSC2000
(Syntax looks wrong for the Ju88 limit here I wonder how this effects things.)
Current planeset with limits.

Enabling all the 500kg limits for the bombers would be OK I think (there's a lot to blow up here and it's a fairly long way to targets.)
So no Pe2 restrictions and the Ju88s like this....
Ju-88A-4=2xAB500;4xAB500;2xSC1000;2xAB1000;2xSC1800;2xSC2000
Maybe this...

RED
Il-2_1940_Early
Il-2_1940_Late
LaGG-3series4=8xRS82
MiG-3ud=6xRS-82
Pe-2series1=2fab500;2fab5002fab250
Yak-1
BLUE
Bf-109E-7
Bf-109F-2
He-111H-2
Ju-87B-2
Ju-88A-4=2xAB500;4xAB500;2xSC1000;2xAB1000;2xSC1800;2xSC2000

Lots of the target areas have extra smoke etc added to the villages on this map,
because these are stationary objects they get included with the target count by server commander.
Taking 10% off all targets might help with this problem, it's easily altered.

Firelok
18-04-2007, 07:46
Whilst dealing with some problems on other maps, I've tweaked Lvov41 to have these revised percentages and allowed the Ju88/Pe2 to have 500kg bombs, no other changes to fighter planeset. I need a definative answer about this from Sonko ideally, thinking about it this might be far too early for Hurricane field mods or Hurricanes at all.

Sonko
19-04-2007, 15:10
Just returned home after three days Sonko agrees to Firelok's changes. :)

Sonko
31-05-2007, 13:14
Played it today, I'll take a closer look at the loadout for bombers regarding 500kg bombs.
Also removing the Hurricane.

Removed the 109-E/Z reason: being unneccessary.

Added the static Ju-88 at blue airbase.

One more short range aaa at each base.

I've sent it to il2maps@il2hq.com.

Sonko
31-05-2007, 14:08
As you might know, I'd like to see this map also on UKD3. Maybe I'm just too impatient but I can't get the drift how to create the requested file for FBD.

I'd be happy if one of the UKD3 mapmakers can do the work please. :)

Happy
31-05-2007, 16:24
feel free to drop and drag it into UK3 ;)

Sonko
06-06-2007, 21:21
Here we go, according to Boka the mission is ready for a test run on UKD3! :)

Firelok
07-06-2007, 01:20
I've got some problems with the planset on this one, I've been thinking about saying something for a couple of months now so here goes...

Hurricane Field Mod for reds...
http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/sheppard/hurricanes/index.htm
First Hurricanes reached the USSR months after Lvov fell in the summer of 41, a field mod hurricane probably would show in the winter of 41 at the earliest.This plane is a kind of mainstay for reds on this map at the moment. The 109F4 is a very strong plane here and even the 109F2 probably wasn't in widespread use.
This map should probably be focused around 109E's vs LaGGs,MiG's and Yak1's for the time period.

NS-IceFire
07-06-2007, 01:34
Does the map have I-16 or I-153 or did we want to stay away from those?

I quite like the map actually...had some great fun attacking the targets with Ju-88 and Ju-87s. The map is great...a bit of planeset work might be in order although I thought it was actually not too bad. Quite enjoyable either way and a job well done. Just some tweaks to make.

Sonko
07-06-2007, 02:16
The I-153 is available, the I-16 isn't.

I had already removed the Hurricane from the planeset but somehow there is still the old version on UKD2.

Bokatar has the latest files, both for SC and FBD.

The 109F-4 is very limited on UKD2, having another thought about it, it could be completely removed from UKD3 and having the F-2 as main 109 fighter.
But removing the F-4 might be bad because then the BLUE side has nothing to encounter the über-armed LaGG or even the cannon-armed Yak.

And remember: With externals disabled dogfights are much different compared to servers with externals switched on.

Another historical inaccuracy: The use of the Yak-7. IIRC it was used around Stalingrad only. The reason for putting it in here instead of the Yak-1 was because the Yak-7 isn't around much imo. Replacing it with the Yak-1 would be another step towards historical accuracy.

Algorex
07-06-2007, 13:02
I've got some problems with the planset on this one, I've been thinking about saying something for a couple of months now so here goes...

Hurricane Field Mod for reds...
http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/sheppard/hurricanes/index.htm
First Hurricanes reached the USSR months after Lvov fell in the summer of 41, a field mod hurricane probably would show in the winter of 41 at the earliest.This plane is a kind of mainstay for reds on this map at the moment. The 109F4 is a very strong plane here and even the 109F2 probably wasn't in widespread use.
This map should probably be focused around 109E's vs LaGGs,MiG's and Yak1's for the time period.

Majority of Bf109s used during the initial phase of Barbarossa were Bf109Fs, infact and by late summer 1941 all Fs had the MG151/20. While history doesn't support limiting the F4s, common sense still does.

Yak-7 was widely used everywhere it's just a bit too early for it. Yak-1, Mig-3 and the earliest Lagg-3 were the only non-polikarpov fighters in service at the time.

All I ask is SC500s and AB500/250s for the ju88.

bokatar
07-06-2007, 15:02
If it's gonna be UKD3, I'm afraid loadout limiting is not gonna be an option..

Sonko PM when you make up your mind on the planeset ( remember, we can limit the planes airborne at a time )

Sonko
07-06-2007, 15:35
I'll limit the F-4 and the Ju-88 with the carrier trick and I'll check the version of the HE-111 - if tis the H-6 I'll replace it with the older one.

Gonna do that when I get home in the evening or so.

Cheers.

Firelok
07-06-2007, 18:19
UK2 version now has no Hurri's but has the Yak 1 present now. 109F4/F2 limits are the same. I think the Yak 1 should do OK as a 'replacement' for the Field Mod Hurri.

Sonko
07-06-2007, 18:31
@Firelok: Did you edit the mission yourself or did you use the latest version that I have sent to il2maps@il2hq.com_or_similar ? I'm asking this, because the version i have sent to il2ma...@il... is outdated now. Bokatar and me have the current version. (corrected loadouts, etc.) :)

Sonko
08-06-2007, 03:01
Here is the blue airfield for UKD3:

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r79/Anarchrist/airfield_blue_3_sections.jpg


I Don't know the exact number of the planes that can spawn there but it seems to be ok.

I'm gonna send the whole packet to Bokatar and to Firelok so that you two can load the updated versions onto the servers.

Firelok
08-06-2007, 12:10
Yeah I edited stuff, .ini file looks like this.

[PlanesArmy1]
Il-2_1940_Early
Il-2_1940_Late
LaGG-3series4=8xRS82
MiG-3ud=6xRS-82
I-153M62=8xRS82
Pe-2series1=2fab500;2fab5002fab250
Yak-1=6rs82
[PlanesArmy2]
Bf-109E-7
Bf-109E-7Z
Bf-109F-2=20
Bf-109F-4=10
He-111H-2
Ju-87B-2
Ju-88A-4=18xSC50_2xSC500;2xSC500;4xSC500;2xAB500;4xAB500;2xSC1000;2xAB1000;2xSC1800;2xSC2000

Hope the limited aircraft thing works , I've seen some big problems with it at times.Aircraft exploding on spawn in or dropping in from 5m above the airbase, I was thinking this might be to do with the terrain that the carrier is placed on before deletion (if it's a different heigt from the base or near trees etc.)

Xiola
08-06-2007, 12:25
Nice map, but I have a just one concern.

I would not want to fly red on this map, I really dont like these Eastern Front early maps much because blue overpower red. I would just use the 109E if reds have this planeset. Not even an i16.

BAsically I have the same concerns that Firelok has.

If anyone is going to make an early war map, I would much prefer it to be on the Western front using SPit V and 109F, thats a great battle and if you build a planeset around those 2 it always turns into a great map.

I seem to find that early war eastern front maps empty the server. So many times I have seen groans when yet another early East map comes up.

Just my constructive criticism :))) Hope you continue to make more maps Sonko.

Sonko
08-06-2007, 12:38
Blues aren't overpowered on this map. Only the players are overpowered because they can use F6 on UKD2, thats what makes the BF-109F-4 so in some peoples mind extremely superior to russian planes.


The F-4 is heavily limited and the F-2 is a peashooter.
Therefore the Yak's (nearly same armament than F-4) and the LaGG's (overkill armament) have much greater firepower than the 109's have.

I think the planeset is ok now, just play it one time Xiola and you'll know it! :)

Firelok
08-06-2007, 12:46
Balancing early war VVS vs Luftwaffe maps is difficult to say the least, 109F series is a great plane and the Emil's are no slouches either against that we have slower better armed planes that are generally thought to be tougher (Yak1s and LaGGs) and the very manouverable Polikarpov planes. I've heard plenty of moans about russian planes being too strong and plenty of moans about the luftwaffe planes being too strong. Fly them to their respective strengths and I think it all balances out roughly.

I rather enjoy all theatres TBO, a never ending diet of Spits vs 109s would bore the pants off've me. It's the variety of planes that we are given that is a great strength of IL2 (maybe not all moddelled great it's true.) and there's a lot of fun to be had on all theatres. Not to mention the hours of work that go into producing a good map, there can be nothing else that makes my blood boil so much as seeing someone type vote without even trying a map out.


I seem to find that early war eastern front maps empty the server. So many times I have seen groans when yet another early East map comes up.
you need to have a close study of the maplist Xoila and look at the sheer variety of maps we have on UK2 (and that there are more western front than anything else.)

Maybe re-installing the game and actually having a fly with us might help:eek: :rolleyes: :D

Sonko
08-06-2007, 14:57
@Xiola: Maybe I'll make some more maps but I don't know yet. It also needs some good ideas when it comes to map making otherwise you might repeat yourself.

The 500 kg bombs are allowed for both sides now.

Xiola
08-06-2007, 19:58
Balancing early war VVS vs Luftwaffe maps is difficult to say the least, 109F series is a great plane and the Emil's are no slouches either against that we have slower better armed planes that are generally thought to be tougher (Yak1s and LaGGs) and the very manouverable Polikarpov planes. I've heard plenty of moans about russian planes being too strong and plenty of moans about the luftwaffe planes being too strong. Fly them to their respective strengths and I think it all balances out roughly.

I rather enjoy all theatres TBO, a never ending diet of Spits vs 109s would bore the pants off've me. It's the variety of planes that we are given that is a great strength of IL2 (maybe not all moddelled great it's true.) and there's a lot of fun to be had on all theatres. Not to mention the hours of work that go into producing a good map, there can be nothing else that makes my blood boil so much as seeing someone type vote without even trying a map out.


you need to have a close study of the maplist Xoila and look at the sheer variety of maps we have on UK2 (and that there are more western front than anything else.)

Maybe re-installing the game and actually having a fly with us might help:eek: :rolleyes: :D


HEY! I ve been playing today actually!

I'm back with a vengeance! :fluffle:

Firelok
09-06-2007, 12:15
HEY! I ve been playing today actually!

I'm back with a vengeance!
Cool, I'll cu up there soon I hope:)

Firelok
10-08-2007, 09:11
Given the enormous amount of i16s used by the VVS at this period I'm not really sure why there are none on this map.
I think replacing the i153 uber bi-plane with the i16 type18 would be worth thinking about.

Sonko
10-08-2007, 14:02
Feel free to replace it, Firelok. :) When I made this mission I left out the I-16 because it simply was everywhere, nearly on every eastern front map, so I took the biplane instead.

Sonko
11-12-2008, 01:09
I tweaked the bases a bit regarding defense firepower.

SimonJames
15-12-2008, 13:55
Great map Sonko...

I have found some Finnish 109G2 skins here (http://www.canons-skins.com/bf109/eastern.html). I think G series skins will fit the F series but not the E series 109s. Anyone have any or know of any Finnish skins for the other planes on this map ?

*EDIT* Posted in wrong thread, skins are for Finnish 109s