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NS-IceFire
09-01-2007, 01:14
This is probably my second most controversial map on the server right now. Lots of feedback coming in and so I've asked Firelok to retrieve the current version off the server so I can make some changes.

So here we go.

AIRCRAFT

Added some new aircraft in limited numbers. The F4U-1A (14 planes, only default and drop tank armaments allowed, no bombs), P-47D-22 (14 planes, restricted to 500lb and rockets only, no 1000lb), TBF-1C (10 planes), J2M3 (8 planes due to its overwhelming performance), Ki-43-II, and Ki-43-II-Kai.

Removed the SBD-3, F6F-5, F4F, A6M5, A6M5b, Ki-43-Ib, Ki-43-Ic as they are basically duplicates or largely unused. I've also removed some of the number restrictions on planes that should be unlimited due to their importance.

The ever so fun H8K remains but will be facing down its new foes the F4U-1A and P-47D-22.

TARGETS

Remain basically the same. I've changed the defending US destroyers to Dent class for improved performance due to less flak. They are both veteran with 2.0 fire rate instead of average at 3.0 fire rate with the previous two Ward class destroyers. The Ward class was having little effect against the H8K's anyways so defending fighters will be a must.

Slight tweaks to the Japanese targets to make them a bit more interesting (a few more bunker type targets). Otherwise unchanged.

I'm hoping this will make things more entertaining for people. I hope the J2M3 doesn't completely ruin the balance or we'll have to find something else. More recent patches have made the A6M5a a pretty potent fighter and it seems to do really well against the Hellcats these days so given good pilots on both sides, J2M3 aside, the Japanese should have a fair shake against them. The F4U-1A and P-47D are great boom and zoom machines but the layout of the map may make it harder for them and the J2M3 should hunt these two types. They are somewhat limited and if the entire team takes them out they will be gone fast.

I'm going to hold onto this map till some comments come in about these changes. I'd like to make this work if I can.

Firelok
09-01-2007, 02:03
I'd like to see the blues attack a battle fleet rather than aircraft carriers that are homebases too as this acts as a brake on experienced pilots attacking carriers because they know that reds will be getting an 2000m airstart for every carrier they destroy. So what I'm suggesting is other Cruisers/Battlewagons or indeed non active smaller carriers as the targets for blues but with the carrier take-off homebases further behind them. I know that this isn't the change your talking about and means more work but I think it's worth doing.

Making more of the mountain bunker targets rather than the far off ones in the village is a great idea now we have new bunker/trench objects. The plane changes you are doing seem very wise and affect the problems caused by air to air use of HVAR rockets, I know the F4U will be popular and the improved Japanese planes choice, too.

ForkTailedDevil
09-01-2007, 05:03
Wow sounds good. Is the bomb load out limited on the Corsair? Also call me crazy but would it be bad to throw in a few B6N's just to say there is a map with them available?? I guess they would be sitting ducks without escorts. Fairly historical though.

NS-IceFire
09-01-2007, 05:10
Fantastic ideas folks!

Escort carrier battlegroup for targets with fleet carriers moved further back. Remove the tanks at the back and add far more artillery and bunker targets. Can do as well.

B6N...great idea. Its faster than the B5N and it might be a good torpedo or bomb truck against the fleet. At least for something different.

Zorin
01-02-2007, 22:44
This didn't work at all today.

Teams were even with like 12 per side and all red were flying F4U or P47, rendering every blue plane useless.

There was no J2M3 or H8K and the B6N is in the same class of flying pigs with the TBF and the B5N(first hit elevator gone, second hit tail section gone, btw).

Some bare numbers again

Ki-61(fastest unlimited blue plane)= 475km/h

F6F = +40 km/h (unlimited)
P47 = +60 km/h (14 planes)
F4U = +90 km/h (14 planes)

28+ planes hunting down a "threat" of 8 planes of equal quality. And not one red fighter is really in need to fight if he does not want to.

In my opinion it'll be best to return to the old plane set version which worked fairly well and only keep the new target arrangement.

Kat
01-02-2007, 22:57
This didn't work at all today.

Teams were even with like 12 per side and all red were flying F4U or P47, rendering every blue plane useless.

There was no J2M3 or H8K and the B6N is in the same class of flying pigs with the TBF and the B5N(first hit elevator gone, second hit tail section gone, btw).

Some bare numbers again

Ki-61(fastest unlimited blue plane)= 475km/h

F6F = +40 km/h (unlimited)
P47 = +60 km/h (14 planes)
F4U = +90 km/h (14 planes)

28+ planes hunting down a "threat" of 8 planes of equal quality. And not one red fighter is really in need to fight if he does not want to.

In my opinion it'll be best to return to the old plane set version which worked fairly well and only keep the new target arrangement.

Being a nosey bugger I took a nose at the stat page and blue won which, despite losing more aircraft, surely contradicts the "didn't work" observation.

http://www.il2hq.com/scstats2/il2sc_stat/index.php?navigation=map/198/23/index.html

Not saying it doesn't perhaps need tweaking but saying a map doesn't work because you lost more aircraft is perhaps a little OTT. You won the map which is the whole point is it not?

Zorin
01-02-2007, 23:24
You really don't need to tell me how to know if a map works or not, thanks very much.

Blue won cause it was the safest to pick a Betty and rush to sink seven ships while hoping for the best with a 20mm rear gunner and reds flying 90% fighters and single SBDs being picked up by the slow blue cannon armed planes.

A map is supposed to be enjoyable for both sides which has little to do with who won the map, Kat. It sure is an indicator for balance, but you have to take a lot more into consideration. Even the red fighter guys said that they didn't like the setup of planes, which means quite a bit, IMO.

NS-IceFire
02-02-2007, 02:25
Where'd the J2M3 and H8K go?

I think the requests for more planes on this has backfired completely.

I think I'll do a new map with the plane requests and at a later point in the war so we can balance it properly. I'll have to re-work Marianas back down.

Kat
02-02-2007, 02:36
Where'd the J2M3 and H8K go?

I think the requests for more planes on this has backfired completely.

I think I'll do a new map with the plane requests and at a later point in the war so we can balance it properly. I'll have to re-work Marianas back down.
Is the H8K external? Could be someones loaded the map into the editor - which will remove it.

NS-IceFire
02-02-2007, 04:35
Yes its externals only AI plane.

NS-IceFire
08-02-2007, 01:11
Ok.....I thought long and hard about Marianas as it is right now. I think I need to redo it. I hope that the new version will be better liked than the old one. Its a new dynamic somewhat and I've canned some of the better performing planes. Its somewhat like the original but in other ways not.

I've moved the action from Saipan to Guam. The Japanese still occupy the island and US forces are planning to come ashore. I'm not anywhere close to being done with the map but I want to post the layout and planeset and allay concerns now.

So planeset is as follows:

US Navy
FM-2 Wildcat
F6F-3 Hellcat
SBD-3 Dauntless (some prefer the telescopic gunsight while bombing so both are available)
SBD-5 Dauntless

Japanese
A6M3
A6M5
A6M5a (heaviest of the three but with the largest cannon load, I'll let Zero lovers decide...but the A6M3 is probably the best)
D3A
G4M
Ki-43-II
Ki-43-II-Kai
Ki-61-Hei
Ki-61-Otsu
A6M2-N
H8K

None of the Army aircraft are historical but they give variety and extra punch where the Navy planes may fail and vice versa. The H8K returns as its so much fun for both sides to deal with.

The USN has carriers as well as air starts (placed much further back) so as to allow for heavy loads and then recovery at the carriers. A USN battlegroup is closer in with heavy cruisers, destroyers, and so forth which are the target.

The F6F is easily the best fighter on the map having the best top speed, firepower, and durability. This is countered by its more challenging requirements when fighting Japanese fighters in sustained combat.

http://colin.polariscreations.com/images/guam.jpg

Also...for those of you interested in having some more of the later aircraft...such as the Corsair...which was a common request when this map was being played...fear not. I'm converting part of the Singapore map into the invasion of Luzon which will have Corsairs and Thunderbolts against N1K-2J and Ki-84-A. The PTO is challenging with some lack of diversity but I think this will be a fun one as well.