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Firelok
15-01-2007, 04:15
A quick glance at the maplist for UKd2 will show you two things, one the enormous amount and variety of great maps and two we need more Pacific theatre maps. Which pose more problems to a mapmaker than the other theatres in terms of suitable locations and more importantly balanced planesets.

It has to be said that as the later planes come in the Imperial Japanese Navy planes are less able to give a good account against the F6Fs, F4Us and P38s and it's the Imperial Japanese Army planes that are closer in terms of performance (making a good match-up.) yet the IJA flew over a much restricted area compared to the IJN so making suitable scenarios thin on the ground.
We already have some good maps taking this into account with a mixed IJN/IJA planeset.I'm thinking of Kyushu,Marianas2,Okinawa etc. But we need more, even maybe to the extent of being more flexible in terms of planes available to blues.
For example the famous Rabaul IJN/IJA base in the SW Pacific/New Guinea campaign area was subject to an air suppression/superiority campaign that would seem Ideal for our purposes but my current patchy research isn't showing anything more advanced there than Ki-43s,Ki-61s even into 44/45. I'm still working away at this however.
We have the new Manchuria map that Icefire's done and I know Zorin's working away at a mid-war Burma map so we have some great new things happening. So to conclude spare a thought for the Pacific theatre :)

NS-IceFire
15-01-2007, 04:48
The one big problem with Pacific maps is the balance. Its decently balanced in 1942 and early 1943. Then its grossly mismatched for mid 1943 and then balance is regained in early 1945 in terms of plane capability.

I was thinking, however, that we might make use the New Guinea map for 1942 or 1943 operations in the other half of New Guinea that we don't have. Some of us might be familiar with this side of the map as it was well flown over for Server Wars practice.

I'm a bit mapped out for the moment but I'll think about it.

Algorex
15-01-2007, 09:21
Late war Burma, Defence of Darwin, Battle of the Bismark Sea, perhaps something about Borneo 1945.

Firelok
15-01-2007, 11:20
I'm a bit mapped out for the moment but I'll think about it.
Mate I'm there with you on that one, I spend more hours in FMB than I do flying
:wall:


Late war Burma, Defence of Darwin, Battle of the Bismark Sea, perhaps something about Borneo 1945.

often thought about Darwin, It's a tricky one to find the right bit of map and when it was really kicking off, it's a zeros vs P40 defender map like Pearl. Otherwise a bit later there's Spits too but no IJN attacks really. Yep Borneo 1945 might be a go-er depending on what IJA planes were about, or we pull a fast one with the planes :eek:
I thought there might be a late-war mainland China option involving IJA vs USAAF /CNAF as the Chinese were getting trained up on P51s in India by that time.

NS-IceFire
15-01-2007, 15:22
Seeing as Manchuria works....you could use it as a sub for some USAAF operations in China against the Japanese.

Or Burma. I haven't experimented with that map yet. Perhaps Japanese versus RAF in 1944. I have a squadron diary in one of my Spitfire books about these operations. In real life it was their limited number of Spitfire VIII's (usually 8 in a formation) against swarms of Ki-43-II's (usually 16 or 30 aircraft in a pack). For game balance it would be with Ki-84s, Ki-61's, and Ki-43-II's against the Spitfire VIIIs and P-47D-27 (Thunderbolt II). I can see limiting the Thunderbolts but keeping the Ki-84-Ia as unlimited.

Might be an idea I'll follow up on.

I did promise to finish the VVS vs NATO setup at some point as well. I think I'll finish with that sometime in the next few weeks after a bit of a rest.

Firelok
05-03-2007, 15:14
As a bald statement I'm disinclined to accept any more Western Front maps at the moment, particularly post 1943. Regardless of the historical merits/beauty of a particular map our audience will become bored of yet another SpitIX/P51 vs Late-War Lufty scenario.

Now some Pacific stuff is in the pipeline, Chatanooga's exhaustive researching of an early-war Britiah Empire/IJN engagement is now turning to map creation and Icefire's very kindlygoing to relaunch a Bismark Sea map for us and I am still slowly pottering away on a 43 RAAF Papua New-Guinea generic battle too.

We have some far north theatre eastern front stuff coming too from Zorin.
So I'm saying we need to increase the number of Eastern Front and Pacific (especially) maps produced to counterract this bias.

One thing we are blessed with is a very active mapping community here at battle-fields and it's to be looked upon as a feather in our caps.

Kat
05-03-2007, 15:18
As a bald statement I'm disinclined to accept any more Western Front maps at the moment, particularly post 1943. Regardless of the historical merits/beauty of a particular map our audience will become bored of yet another SpitIX/P51 vs Late-War Lufty scenario.


Makes sense, prejumably you'll still accept the revised Dunkirk though?

Algorex
05-03-2007, 15:21
There's always Finland with few good maps boiling under the lit.

Also i'm looking in to Crimea based action... circa 1943-44. Tirpitz like 1944 Aegean has crossed my mind too.

Firelok
05-03-2007, 15:49
Revisions and improvements and outright re-engineerings are always going to be accepted. But If you look at the mapcycle we are really close (if we add more Western Front.) to ending up with two 'same theatre' maps back to back which isn't something I think is a really good idea at all.
Yes sorry Algorex we have your map to look forwards to as well. THis is what I'd count as an Eastern front map (as it has USSR planes present.) this appilies to Zorins Kirkenes maps too.

My definintions are BTW.

W- Western (RAF/USAAF types vs Luftwaffe planes)
E- Eastern (Axis vs USSR types)
P-Pacific (Japanese types vs any Allied planes)

MajorDamage
05-03-2007, 16:09
I have a vague plan in the pipeline for an early war Pacific map with rubbish planes: Japanese/Dutch scenario based around the invasion of Java and possibly incorporating the naval Battle of the Java Sea. It will be different to Singapore in that it won't have the Buffalo/Ki43 match. Instead it will be Ki27's on both sides (standing in for the Fokker DXXI). Other planes in the set will include:

A6M2 - N flyable seaplane - a chance to actually fly this thing in a useful role!
DB3 bomber standing in for the Martin B-10
PBN as the PBY or Dornier 24
Probably H8K1

All came about because I was reading about Japanese seaplane tenders (like you do). Basically more seaplane fun but in the Pacific with fun twisty-turny fighters.

I'll make a proper map proposal when I've got Biscay put to bed and I've had a chance to do a bit more research and think about it a bit. Just wanted to state my intention in case anyone else was thinking of a similar thing. ;)

ForkTailedDevil
07-03-2007, 03:16
Well I suppose my map counts as a Pacific map. I do have other ones planned in fact not sure if I should have started it yet but I have is a 1943 Japan vs USSR in the Kahklin Gol (spelling) map. Obviously a what if but I guarantee it is a plane set no one has seen. This will be loads easier than my first map which was way over my head. Hopefully new tactics for planes that never saw combat with each other. I guess I am taking the easy way out since mid war Soviet fighters aren't much faster or better at high altitude than mid war Japanese Army and Navy fighters. Hardest part is bombers. Only the G4M and the Ki-21 carry big bombs to take out heavy armor. D3A is a challenge. Wow I just realized I wanna use a B6N as a bomber to take out Soviet stuff I guess I will wanna do a '44 map to. Anyway those are my thoughts. FTD

NS-IceFire
07-03-2007, 04:34
Forktail: Remember that the Ki-61 all have 2x250kg bombs as options and make pretty decent ground pounders.

I'm currently working on three new maps:

1) Philippines - Invasion of Luzon which is a 1944 map

2) Bismarck Sea - Rebalanced...

3) Tirpitz - Redone on the Norway map

Zorin
07-03-2007, 04:47
Well I suppose my map counts as a Pacific map. I do have other ones planned in fact not sure if I should have started it yet but I have is a 1943 Japan vs USSR in the Kahklin Gol (spelling) map. Obviously a what if but I guarantee it is a plane set no one has seen. This will be loads easier than my first map which was way over my head. Hopefully new tactics for planes that never saw combat with each other. I guess I am taking the easy way out since mid war Soviet fighters aren't much faster or better at high altitude than mid war Japanese Army and Navy fighters. Hardest part is bombers. Only the G4M and the Ki-21 carry big bombs to take out heavy armor. D3A is a challenge. Wow I just realized I wanna use a B6N as a bomber to take out Soviet stuff I guess I will wanna do a '44 map to. Anyway those are my thoughts. FTD

Screw the Khalkin Gol map. The distances won't do and the temperature will ruin it anyway. It is fun and nice for the Spain replacement with the early crates, but I don't think people will enjoy it having to fight on max of 50% throttle all the time with rads full open.

Firelok
07-03-2007, 11:03
Yep I agree with Zorin here, I got real excited doing Catalunia, was up all night finishing it. And then when we actually tested, it was so infernally hot that I thought we would have to abandon the whole idea. The radial engined planes seemed to do a little better than inline-water cooled though, for an actual historic KaikinGol bombers are a real issue. Lots of Trucks and Arty would be the way to go rather than light tanks I suppose.

ForkTailedDevil
07-03-2007, 14:32
What about doing it at dawn, before the sun is up think that would help? Maybe Kurland or on of the other maps.

Kat
07-03-2007, 14:43
What about doing it at dawn, before the sun is up think that would help? Maybe Kurland or on of the other maps.
I believe the temps don't change ( or not enough ) - pretty sure either Firelok or Zorin has looked at it.

Main way to cool down is go high.

Chatanooga
07-03-2007, 14:49
Zorin did this test for us.


Made a little test with the Do which has a Free Air Temperature Gauge.

First of all, changing the time of day has no effect on the temperature, same for the weather setting.

Khalkin Gol: 0m = 40 5000m = 5

Online MT: 0m = 28,5 5000m = -7

Desert Online: 0m = 22,5 5000 = -10

Firelok
07-03-2007, 15:00
I mean I've no objection to the Gol other than this TBO, maybe flying around in a Ki27 there for a bit to see what it's like might be useful, picking two close airbases and making it a short flight time to targets has got to help too.

NS-IceFire
07-03-2007, 22:26
Zorin did this test for us.

Do-335 has this?

Zorin
08-03-2007, 00:08
Do-335 has this?

Yes. Upper left side of the dashboard.

Algorex
08-03-2007, 00:09
Do-335 has this?

Also the He-111 has one, F4F has fahrenheit scale free air gauge there might be others too.

Zorin
08-03-2007, 00:10
Just check the plane guide that came with 1946. Should be in your main IL2 folder.