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Kat
07-02-2007, 16:54
Thinking about doing this as a mission.

Allies :- (taking off from 2 fleet carriers as you can't take off from stationary escort carriers - each fleet carrier would represent one of the two task groups - if the map permits would also have an island base ( Corsica )

Allies :-
F4F Wildcat
F6F Hellcat
Seafire III

Axis :-
Umm yeah not sure..


Targets would be obviously the invasion forces and the defending forces.

Please can I have map suggestions for the southern med coast of France ( suspect we'll not get a suitable southern facing one ) and the Axis airforces which would I suspect have not been front line aircraft as they would be committed to Normandy.

NS-IceFire
07-02-2007, 22:29
There wasn't much in the way of axis forces over this battle area. All of the pilot reports I've read were from USN Hellcats and they seemed to be mostly shooting at HE-111's converted into transports. I think many of them even lacked guns.

Not sure what kind of fighters were around but probably second line stuff. Maybe even what was left of the French D.520's.

You could toss that to the wind and go for G-6 Lates, FW190A-5 high boost plus He-111s. Bf110 could do as well. Keep the planesets limited but interesting. It wouldn't be strictly historical but it would be fun.

Kat
07-02-2007, 23:22
There wasn't much in the way of axis forces over this battle area. All of the pilot reports I've read were from USN Hellcats and they seemed to be mostly shooting at HE-111's converted into transports. I think many of them even lacked guns.

Not sure what kind of fighters were around but probably second line stuff. Maybe even what was left of the French D.520's.

You could toss that to the wind and go for G-6 Lates, FW190A-5 high boost plus He-111s. Bf110 could do as well. Keep the planesets limited but interesting. It wouldn't be strictly historical but it would be fun.
Yeah I was thinking that there wouldn't be that much - I've read of JU52's being shot down too - so was thinking of putting together a secondline force. So your planeset would probably do well.

Kat
07-02-2007, 23:35
So basically :-

109-G6-Late
190-A5
He111 G2
110-G2

?Stuka?

Firelok
08-02-2007, 02:09
So the assumption is the Luftwaffe strongly defended the Dragoon landings then if so you could use something not unlike the Tirpitz planeset which is very enjoyable for a lot of folks.

RED
CorsairMkI
CorsairMkII=20
F6F-3=20
SeafireMkIII
SeafireFMkIII
TBF-1C
BLUE
Bf-109G-2
Bf-109G-6
Bf-109G-6_Late=15
Bf-110G-2
Fw-190A-5
Fw-190A-6=15
He-111H-6
Ju-87D-5

The best 'fit' for a suitable coastline on any of the maps we have is the southern coast on the Crimea map, it's facing the right way and has suitable terrain too.

Kat
08-02-2007, 02:24
I'm certainly planning on keeping the correct allied aircraft ( F4F, Seafire III's and F6F - there where some Swordies and PR seafires but VERY small number ) - then counter that with a suitable axis airforce G-2 did occur to me as it's a relativly old aircraft all be it a still capable one. Question is is it too much for the 3 allied Fighter-bombers?

NS-IceFire
08-02-2007, 02:53
The Hellcat is very capable. Don't make it limited...its going to be needed to confront the axis fighters as well as doing ground pounding. The F4F you could also substitute for the slightly faster FM-2. The Hellcat will probably end up being the primary fighter-bomber as well. Its doable...the HVAR's will take out virtually anything.

Kat
08-02-2007, 03:06
The Hellcat is very capable. Don't make it limited...its going to be needed to confront the axis fighters as well as doing ground pounding. The F4F you could also substitute for the slightly faster FM-2. The Hellcat will probably end up being the primary fighter-bomber as well. Its doable...the HVAR's will take out virtually anything.

Oh wasn't planing on limiting anything. The 3 Naval fighters where there in pretty equal numbers so don't see any reason too.

Really just a case of building up a viable, and feasable ( for the time/location ), axis opposition.

I want to do this map because it presents an interesting concept, you don't very often see straight Luftwaffe vs Naval scenarios.

Algorex
08-02-2007, 09:09
Well the basic "fire brigade" air units were gruppes from JGs and SGs. Mid 44 save bet would be:

Bf109G6 late
FW190A6 fighter
FW190A5/F8 jabo
Ju87D

Kat
08-02-2007, 09:23
Well the basic "fire brigade" air units were gruppes from JGs and SGs. Mid 44 save bet would be:

Bf109G6 late
FW190A6 fighter
FW190A5/F8 jabo
Ju87D

I'll add He111's in too as we know they where ( all be it in transport configuration for the most part ) in the area.

NS-IceFire
08-02-2007, 22:14
It'll be fun with them...thats ultimately the point.

Kat
09-02-2007, 01:24
ok going to work on this this weekend with planeset's of :-

Allies
F4F Wildcat
F6F Hellcat
Seafire III

Axis
Bf109G6 late
FW190A6 fighter
FW190A5/F8 jabo
Ju87D
He111

From memory is it 4 spawn points a carrier? So I'd need 4 + the land base ( or 5 carriers) ?

Axis will hit the landings, allies will do surgical strikes inside against lines of re-enforcement etc.

So only non-prototypical part of the map will be the fact the axis have respectable aircover. They won't have any counter-forces on the beaches.

Algorex
09-02-2007, 10:06
For the wildcat use the FM-2 as most martlets were FMs.

Also you could replace the He-111 with Ju-88 as KG26 was in the area with Ju-88s (http://www.ww2.dk/air/hq/2fldiv2.htm)

Kat
09-02-2007, 13:12
ok :)

Looking at the makeup of the carrier fleet I realised today I could be crafty.

With each Carrier having (can someone confirm please) 4 spawn points, if I have 4 carriers, I can have the following makeup.

TG 88.1
Carrier one - F4F Martlet FM-2's only - Representing :-
* HMS Pursuer (881 Naval Air Squadron) F4F Wildcat
* HMS Searcher (882 Naval Air Squadron) F4F Wildcat
Carrier two - Seafire III only - Representing :-
* HMS Attacker (879 Naval Air Squadron) Seafire
* HMS Khedive (899 Naval Air Squadron) Seafire

Not represented
* HMS Emperor (800 Naval Air Squadron) F6F Hellcat


Task Group 88.2
Carrier one - F6F Hellcat - Representing :-
* USS Tulagi (VOF-01) F6F Hellcat
* USS Kasaan Bay (VF-74) F6F Hellcat

Carrier two - Seafire III - Representing :-
* HMS Hunter (807 Naval Air Squadron) Seafire
* HMS Stalker (809 Naval Air Squadron) Seafire

Land base or test airstrip representing Corsica VOC-01
(Corsica) * 12 F6F Hellcat (technically night fighters but needed to allow 17 - IF I'm right that it's 4 per carrier ).

This means a maximum of 8 Hellcats, 8 Seafires and 4 Martlets in the air at any one time ( up to a maximum of 17 total of course ).