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NS-IceFire
11-02-2007, 14:45
Ok...Marianas2 is, or at least I consider it, a bit of a flop. I've tried to make it more fun as it was with more planes but that only made things worse. So I've taken some of the more popular elements from some of the other maps and tried to make this work again. So...Marianas3...the sequel.

http://colin.polariscreations.com/images/marianas3-01.jpg
http://colin.polariscreations.com/images/marianas3-02.jpg
http://colin.polariscreations.com/images/marianas3-03.jpg
http://colin.polariscreations.com/images/marianas3-04.jpg
http://colin.polariscreations.com/images/marianas3-05.jpg
http://colin.polariscreations.com/images/marianas3-06.jpg
http://colin.polariscreations.com/images/marianas3-07.jpg

US Navy:
F6F-3
FM-2
SBD-3
SBD-5

Two airstarts and two carrier starts with a third carrier for landing ops. The air starts are set further back to somewhat negate the altitude advantage. What it does allow is for more fully laden aircraft to attack the targets that would otherwise be able to take off if it weren't for the stationary carriers. They can then recover on the carrier normally.

Japanese:
A6M2-N
H8K (limit of 16)
A6M3
A6M5
A6M5a
Ki-43-Ic
Ki-43-II-Kai
Ki-61-Hei
Ki-61-Otsu
G4M-11

The Japanese attack the shore bombardment group which is a pair of heavy cruisers (asleep), three destroyers (active), and several cargo ships. The Americans attack a convoy in the south, seaplane base in the middle, and artillery emplacements in the north. The Navy targets have a lower percentage to complete and they are generally softer targets but there are more of them than the ships. The Japanese airbases are somewhat close to the targets without being right ontop of them. The Americans will have to move quickly into D3 to try and intercept the oncoming H8K's and G4M's.

Additional balancing might be required but I think this will be more interesting and more fair overall. The Japanese pilots have a ton of options so they can choose the most effective plane for their play style.

NS-IceFire
13-02-2007, 22:01
I'm almost done...any comments before I deliver? Then its onto Iron Curtain and Luzon.

Zorin
13-02-2007, 22:19
No, I'm eagerly looking forward to it. :)

ForkTailedDevil
14-02-2007, 02:06
Today was the first time in a few weeks since I played Marianas 2. I flew blue and really enjoyed it. I flew a Ki43 II. I shot down 2 Corsair's, Hellcat's and 1 P47 silly red pilots trying to turn with me. I then flew a B6N to finish off the last USN carrier. I got really lucky that no one on red was using the red planes to their strengths.

Firelok
14-02-2007, 10:09
I've had some fun on the previous Marianas maps and I'm sure a new venue (and the Guam map is a nice one) will work very well. With only limited numbers of H8K's is locking the Hellcat's rocket loadouts a possibility?

NS-IceFire
14-02-2007, 14:04
We could lock the Hellcat rockets...they certainly aren't purely historical...but it might be fun to keep them. Especially given the number of targets that need to be destroyed. I'll do some testing and see where that stands.

ForkTail: I believe you're the only one who likes that map from the Japanese perspective. Everyone else seems to quite vocally hate it. But this map will give you plenty of Ki-43-II fun as well :)

Gordano
14-02-2007, 14:30
ForkTail: I believe you're the only one who likes that map from the Japanese perspective. Everyone else seems to quite vocally hate it. But this map will give you plenty of Ki-43-II fun as well :)

I'm with ForkTail here, I always fly blue on Marianas when I can.

So what if my plane is slower! It can turn! The US aircraft are the opposite, fast but bad turners. Despite what many would claim to be an unbalanced planeset. I would argue the opposite that planeset balanced, as both sets of aircraft have their clear strengths and it comes down to pilot skill in using those strengths in order to be sucessful.

MajorDamage
14-02-2007, 16:30
This map looks great - I played the Marianas 2 map last night and really enjoyed it so I'm looking forward to trying out the new improved version.

I have a minor aesthetic nit-pick regarding the formation of the ships. I've noticed there are quite a few maps where the ships' captains should all be court-martialled for their terrible station-keeping! US carrier task forces generally had the CV's and auxilliaries (i.e. tankers etc) in the centre with a defensive ring of cruisers and destroyers to act as radar pickets and provide maximum overlapping AA coverage. A little bit like this maybe:

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/matthill999/CarrierTF.jpg

In reality they would have had more DDs and the diameter of the circle would be about 3-4km, but I think for our purposes just arranging the escorts in a rough circle around the CVs would really help the visual appeal.

Sorry if this seems a bit anal - I don't mean to criticise, it's just that with all the ground targets and airfields etc looking very authentic it seems a shame to let the side down with a rather chaotic ship formation! :)

NS-IceFire
14-02-2007, 16:54
Good point Major...I'll try and work on that. The actual carriers are defended by a single Fletcher class destroyer. Its set at a refire rate of 15 but I figure that, unless its taken out, this is more than enough AAA to defend against almost anything without causing too much lag. Hard to put up a good picket that way.

The other ships are arranged in a line formation for shore bombardment. Not sure if they would still have the defensive picket style formation but there are destroyers at either end of the formation and guarding most of the lines of attack. The H8K's and G4M's will be facing down a small to medium line of defensive fire. Torpedoes will probably be most useful in the first rounds of attacks to take out the destroyers and then follow up with skip bombs on the heavy cruisers (they are asleep so as not to cause lag).

MajorDamage
14-02-2007, 19:04
Yeah the shore bombardment division would be in a straight line astern formation for maximum broadside.

I wasn't so much worried about the amount of AAA in the carrier TF as simply the visual side of things - perhaps a few sleeping DDs instead of the merchant ships. Don't worry if it messes up your target count etc though - I'm probably the only one who's bothered by it and I'm sure the map will be much fun either way. My first experiences of gaming involved pushing 1/3000 scale WW2 ships around the living room floor and rolling dice, so I'm a bit funny about naval stuff. :D

Firelok
05-03-2007, 00:27
We tried this tonight and it worked Ok but the target command info is mucked up I think maybe they overlap?(it gave same location and target count:-D4 42 targets for all three) I'm going to shave off some from these radii and try again tomorrow.

Zorin
05-03-2007, 00:31
We tried this tonight and it worked Ok but the target command info is mucked up I think maybe they overlap?(it gave same location and target count:-D4 42 targets for all three) I'm going to shave off some from these radii and try again tomorrow.

So is there only the little harbor to be attacked for reds? In your screens seams to be more further north. Nevertheless, they demolished that one rather easily, so maybe stuffing it up a bit wouldn't hurt.

Oh, and add the H8K.

And is the red carrier supposed to be active or not?

NS-IceFire
05-03-2007, 00:51
I did add the H8K...

Two carriers active. One inactive for landing (marked with lights).

The target area thing seems odd...I didn't think the radii were that big. Nothing unusual and all three targets are a fair bit apart.

Firelok
05-03-2007, 00:58
The code for the H8K was a little wrong is all it's actually H8K1 the targets coords etc don't look that crazy either, like I say I think a little tweak this end and then see where we are is the way to go.

NS-IceFire
05-03-2007, 02:02
Aha :)

We'll see if the tweaks fix it up. Sure hope its not a map problem with the way its actually put together.

Boemher
05-03-2007, 10:52
The map is looking great, I have one observation and that is that there are 8 different types of Japanese fighter to chose from. It would make logistical sense for the server and for the Japanese ground crew to at least half that number. You could still then retain the Ki 61, the Ki43 and 2 Zero models.

Anyway looks like another top notch map Ice

NS-IceFire
05-03-2007, 22:18
Thanks Boemher!

The reason I tend to give the Japanese so many is that I'm trying to give the Japanese side as many options against the "better" American planes. But some trimming could be done...

A6M2-N (keeping this one because its a quasi-needed non-AI plane for the H8K)
H8K
A6M3
A6M5a
Ki-43-II-Kai
Ki-61-Otsu
G4M-11

That might do it...

Zorin
17-03-2007, 01:59
I think targets need tweaking. The red targets are way to easy to destroy. You should place more tanks and maybe one or two Destroyers.

And the blue targets could do with a bit of silencing. The CA is way to effective and has too many guns. Better stick to the Destroyers to give AAA cover.

Here a little example from tonights H8K raid. We were 5 H8Ks and all of us ended up like this on every sortie. Those are FLAK clouds btw.

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/8352/h8k2oo0.jpg
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/9868/h8k3rn9.jpg
http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/97/h8k1gz0.jpg

Kat
17-03-2007, 02:05
Yeah flak was very heavy, I lost most of my controls to flak and was getting pretty much constant hits on my plane on my attack run.

NS-IceFire
17-03-2007, 04:20
The cruisers should be sleeping...

This map seems to be chronically not working as intended. Sorry folks....

Red targets need to be beefed up too eh?

Kat
17-03-2007, 11:34
The cruisers should be sleeping...

This map seems to be chronically not working as intended. Sorry folks....

Red targets need to be beefed up too eh?


Yep red's won in 20 minutes. I didn't even get two sorties in.

NS-IceFire
17-03-2007, 17:35
So...in 20 minutes red hit all three targets with well over 150 targets to destroy? Really? Maybe the percentages are too low? Even still...got track?

Zorin
17-03-2007, 19:07
I can send you my track.

Firelok
17-03-2007, 22:13
As a temporary expedient I've silenced all the Cruisers and the Indianapolis, this still leaves three destroyers and all the transport ships firing.

Red's are on a 70% destroy all targets, perhaps just upping this to 88-85% might solve the 'easy win for reds' I could do this quite easily and we can see how it goes.

NS-IceFire
18-03-2007, 01:53
Yeah Zorin if you could send a track along that'd be great. I don't get to play nearly as much these days...bad timing, bad mood, etc.

Thanks Firelok...that does sound good. That may be all it needs but we'll see how that works.