PDA

View Full Version : Borneo



MajorDamage
14-03-2007, 12:18
A very tentative map proposal here, I've spent so long googling the subject and arguing with myself about it that I thought it might be better to ask you lot before I continue.

Based on the Japanese invasion of the Dutch East Indies and inspired by events such as these:

http://www.combinedfleet.com/Kamikawa%20Maru_t.htm
http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/tarakan.html

Brief would be a Japanese regiment invading a fictional island off Borneo (which bears a remarkable resemblance to Sardinia).

Planeset:

Red (Netherlands):
Buffalo
PBN
SB2 (as the Martin B-10)

Blue (IJN/IJA):
A6M2-N (as the F1M2 Pete float biplane)
Ki-27
Ki-21

I'm just not sure if it's all a plane substitution too far. I particularly wanted to have a map where the A6M2-N Rufe gets to be useful, but I'm taking big liberties TBO in subbing it for the Pete. The Rufe wasn't about at this time, though the regular non-floatplane A6M2 was of course.

Another possibility is to include the Ki27 on the Red side as the Fokker DXXI. I can see some advantages from a fun perspective of having the Ki27 on both sides. The Fokker was about the same top speed but heavier and I imagine quite a bit less maneuverable than the Ki27.

Feedback welcome, you're all welcome to shoot the whole idea down in flames if you want. I can always ditch this idea and fast forward to the Solomons where the Rufe was actually used against PT boats etc.

Firelok
14-03-2007, 14:27
I like the Ki27 on both side idea, I've never flown the Zero float-plane on any maps that were already filled with late-war US Carrier planes, I've no idea what it would be like vs Buffalo.
This is a great idea I think, Pacific,unusual-planes early war. Get cracking!:D :p

Fusek
22-03-2007, 23:04
If i remember correctly, only one DXXI was send to the Indies for testing. They did have a few hurries however;)

But really, great idea for a map. I was kinda waiting for this :)

NS-IceFire
22-03-2007, 23:07
Mmmm Buffalo against A6M-2N...the Buffalo Mark I will be faster and possibly climb better but the A6M-2N will have the better turn and firepower. If its a B-239 then its a different story...that one will hold all of the cards.

MajorDamage
23-03-2007, 18:33
If i remember correctly, only one DXXI was send to the Indies for testing. They did have a few hurries however;)

But really, great idea for a map. I was kinda waiting for this :)

Darn it, you're right. I somehow got it into my head that the DXXI was used by the KNIL in the East Indies, probably because I read that it was originally designed for them. I obviously never got round to reading the bit about them cancelling the order :o I think I found a picture of one that said it was in the Dutch East Indies but I guess that must have been the one model they sent for evaluation. Thanks for pointing this out.

It's good in a way cos I was thinking it might be a plane substitution too far, but also a shame cos it might have made for some great turn n burn spitting contests. Also a shame cos the fake skin I came across looks really cool:

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/matthill999/FokkerDXXI.jpg

MajorDamage
23-03-2007, 18:39
Mmmm Buffalo against A6M-2N...the Buffalo Mark I will be faster and possibly climb better but the A6M-2N will have the better turn and firepower. If its a B-239 then its a different story...that one will hold all of the cards.

I was thinking of the Buffalo Mk1, although it should really be the B339 - de-navalized version of the F2A2. Is the B239 equivalent? IL2 compare doesn't have data for it.

Just from messing around offline I get the impression that the Buffalo Mk1 can get in all sorts of trouble with the A6m2N if you bleed your energy off too much, but I'm still concerned it may prove to be too uber. I think I'd better knock up an initial prototype map just so we can see how the match works.

*EDIT: just did a bit of googling and discovered the Buffalo Mk1 was the British designation for the B339, so the Mk1 is the right one to use anyway.

Firelok
23-03-2007, 20:15
If i remember correctly, only one DXXI was send to the Indies for testing. They did have a few hurries however;)

But really, great idea for a map. I was kinda waiting for this :)

Can we not bribe Fusek to withdraw his post and say it was all a big mistake:D
THen we could have groovy Ki27 vs Ki27 action.

Crazyclaws
23-03-2007, 20:41
A very tentative map proposal here, I've spent so long googling the subject and arguing with myself about it that I thought it might be better to ask you lot before I continue.

Based on the Japanese invasion of the Dutch East Indies and inspired by events such as these:

http://www.combinedfleet.com/Kamikawa%20Maru_t.htm
http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/tarakan.html

Brief would be a Japanese regiment invading a fictional island off Borneo (which bears a remarkable resemblance to Sardinia).

Planeset:

Red (Netherlands):
Buffalo
PBN
SB2 (as the Martin B-10)

Blue (IJN/IJA):
A6M2-N (as the F1M2 Pete float biplane)
Ki-27
Ki-21

I'm just not sure if it's all a plane substitution too far. I particularly wanted to have a map where the A6M2-N Rufe gets to be useful, but I'm taking big liberties TBO in subbing it for the Pete. The Rufe wasn't about at this time, though the regular non-floatplane A6M2 was of course.

Another possibility is to include the Ki27 on the Red side as the Fokker DXXI. I can see some advantages from a fun perspective of having the Ki27 on both sides. The Fokker was about the same top speed but heavier and I imagine quite a bit less maneuverable than the Ki27.

Feedback welcome, you're all welcome to shoot the whole idea down in flames if you want. I can always ditch this idea and fast forward to the Solomons where the Rufe was actually used against PT boats etc.

Yeah a map based on Borneo. I'm not a mapmaker, but thanks for thinking about this part of the war ( I'm Dutch...............).

I would love to fly the Nomad online.

*** dream-mode on ****
Maybe when map get's done, it would be a nice idea of a map taking back the Dutch East Indies. Not sure about the used planes by the Axis, but at the Allies side: B-25 of the 18e NEI coverd by some Beaufighters of the Aussie's attacking ships......hhhhhmmm
**** dream-mode off ****

But again I'm not a mapmaker, respect to all of you who take the time making these maps!

Algorex
23-03-2007, 20:57
I would love to fly the Nomad online.

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r140/algorex/Do24b.jpg

*hint* Biscay *hint*

MajorDamage
23-03-2007, 20:59
Yeah a map based on Borneo. I'm not a mapmaker, but thanks for thinking about this part of the war ( I'm Dutch...............).

I would love to fly the Nomad online.

You're most welcome, Crazyclaws. It occurred to me that we see all sorts of incorrect markings on the server - French, Polish, Russsian etc but almost never Dutch. So I think it's about time we had some of those groovy orange triangles. :D

The Dutch did fly the Catalina (though a much earlier version I think) in the East Indies, but mostly it's there to represent the Do24 which flew a lot of anti-shipping sorties. BTW you can already fly the PBN if you want on the Biscay43 map.

I like the idea of the recapture also. But one thing at a time...:)

Boemher
23-03-2007, 21:04
Whatsch the rhush Major? Have ah Grolsch

Crazyclaws
23-03-2007, 21:19
I didn't know about the Biscay43 map having PBN's, a beauty of a plane. I'm still planing to make a short trip ( 30 min) on a Catalina here in Holland, including a water landing, But it's not cheap.

I know that the Dutch had 36 PBY-5A at the beginning of the war and after the capture of the Dutch East Indies by the Japanese only 9 made it to Australia.

But ok then, let's break out the groovy orange triangles! :D

@Boehmer: Grolsh..... good plan

NS-IceFire
24-03-2007, 00:31
Whatsch the rhush Major? Have ah Grolsch

Cheersch :)

ForkTailedDevil
25-03-2007, 13:49
I have some Dutch PBY skins even.

Incisor
25-03-2007, 14:31
Great map idea Major,:) I am very interested in this one. Dutch skins for DB, Buffalo, Hurry and Hawk also exist.

irish
25-03-2007, 20:53
whenever appropro I tend to use the Dutch markings. The red triangle is teh kool.

can't wait to play this one

MajorDamage
25-03-2007, 21:38
Thx for the enthusiasm guys. :)

I'm actually really struggling with this because I really intended it to be about the seaplanes most of all, because they really featured in this campaign and they are what drew me to it in the first place. I'm finding it very hard to find a map with seaplane bases in the right place - going to try Guam (Marianas) for the mo but it's going to be a very tight squeeze.

I really don't want to add Hurris/Ki43's etc if i can avoid it because then it just becomes a map like many others, only with orange triangles. ;) If the whole A6M2-N/Buffalo match doesn't work then we'll rethink it, but then I'd be inclined to ditch the seaplanes and put it on the New Guinea or Singapore map.

@ForkTail - yep I've got that Dutch PBY skin also - it's a beauty ;)

stanford
26-03-2007, 11:45
Yet another exciting, orignal map idea MD. Proud to know you.

Algorex
26-03-2007, 11:53
Yet another exciting, orignal map idea MD. Proud to know you.

I'd also like to thank Guinness, Jack Daniels and paint thinners for making Major Damage the man he is nowadays.

Firelok
26-03-2007, 12:01
What about the Palau Online map? this hasn't been used precisely because there is only one land base the other 2 are seaplane only, could always put in a temporary strip for the Ki27s. Most successul might be the Marianas Online map this has seaplane bases on both Saipan island and Tinian worth looking at.

MajorDamage
26-03-2007, 12:06
Guiness and Jack Daniels? Bah! I do have standards to maintain you know.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/matthill999/withnail_antifreeze.jpg

MajorDamage
03-04-2007, 11:44
Right, been beavering away on this, got some screenshots and stuff for you. I'm a bit worried I've overegged the pudding somewhat with the complexity of this. Next map I do will have one target group for each side ;) . I don't mind if it all needs a complete re-design - all part of the learning process.

All still work-in-progress, I haven't finished the targets yet.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/matthill999/BorneoMap1.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/matthill999/BorneoMap2.jpg

RED:
B6 base (a 'Tracey Island'):
Buffalo Mk1
SB_2M-100A (represents the Martin B10)
A3 Land airbase:
Buffalo Mk1
A1 Seaplane Base:
PBN-1 (represents the PBY and Do24)

BLUE:
C3 and C4 auxiliary seaplane tenders:
A6M2-N (represents the F1M2 Pete, but really this is a what-if-they'd-had-the-A6M2N scenario, cos the A6M2-N is nothing like the Pete!)
C3 Land airbase
Ki-27-Otsu
F2 'Tracey Island' base
G4M1_11 (limited to max 100kg bombs)
Ki-43-Ia (?)
Rota seaplane base
H8K1 - it's about a 20 minute flight to the targets but if it makes it it'll do a lot of damage on this map.

Targets are:
Dutch shipping (light stuff sinkable with cannon): A5/B5
Dutch Infantry position defending a bridge: C2
Dutch depot and river traffic: B2
Dutch soft targets scattered around the roads in B2/C2

Japanese Artillery position: B4
Japanese oilfield reconstruction work: D5
Japanese supply convoy: D2

I populated it with some Bots just to get a feel for it and to generate some screenies.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/matthill999/Borneo01.jpg
Seaplane tender and fishing village

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/matthill999/Borneo02.jpg
Thunderbirdsch are GO!!!!

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/matthill999/Borneo03.jpg
Captured oilfield

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/matthill999/Borneo06.jpg
Dutch infantry position. (The bridge is wired to blow - 'neutral' fuel trucks underneath it so any stray ordinance will make a big bang)

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/matthill999/Borneo07.jpg
Dutch road traffic

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/matthill999/Borneo08.jpg
Dutch depot

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/matthill999/Borneo09.jpg
Japanese artillery position/picnic spot

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/matthill999/Borneo10.jpg
Hawaii-Five-0

MajorDamage
03-04-2007, 11:48
Some more:

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/matthill999/Borneo15.jpg
Buffalo bombing artillery position

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/matthill999/Borneo16.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/matthill999/Borneo17.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/matthill999/Borneo18.jpg
Dutch seaplane base

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/matthill999/Borneo19.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/matthill999/Borneo20.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/matthill999/Borneo22.jpg
A6M2-N attacking Dutch infantry position

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/matthill999/Borneo23.jpg
Strafing road traffic

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/matthill999/Borneo24.jpg

Algorex
03-04-2007, 11:55
Clearly you're having way too much on your own, i think it's only fair that you finish this sucker up so the rest of us can join in.

stanford
03-04-2007, 12:03
MD you have excelled yourself! I LOVE the dutch. Tallest nation in Europe, you know :)

Crazyclaws
03-04-2007, 12:07
Well done, looks like a lot of fun. Can't wait to take up a PBN with lovely orange triangles.... :D
Thanks a lot Major!

NS-IceFire
04-04-2007, 00:05
MD you have excelled yourself! I LOVE the dutch. Tallest nation in Europe, you know :)

Saw that on the news this morning! My boss is dutch background and he's 6 4...so no surprises there. I'm short in comparison at 5 11.

Looks like a great map...love the idea of flying using the Dutch markings which are so under used!

DD_Rattler
04-04-2007, 01:12
MD you have excelled yourself! I LOVE the dutch. Tallest nation in Europe, you know :)
Both my parents were born in the Netherlands, and I teach at a private school in Canada that is mainly ethnically Dutch; also my church is ethnically Dutch as well - basically I'm Dutch!

The middle of our phone directory at school is split along the letters A-Va; then Ve-Z (Dutch people will explain to you...). I'm 6'0", and I look up when walking down the halls (all grade 10-12 kids) to about 20% of them, even some girls!

I look forward to the missions!

Thanks, mate!

irish
04-04-2007, 01:34
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a66/jds1978/Duh.jpg

DD_Rattler
04-04-2007, 03:30
Whaaa? ???

NS-IceFire
04-04-2007, 05:06
W00t?

stanford
04-04-2007, 09:08
Spicy!

Paulie
04-04-2007, 09:58
Nominate Irish for 'Random post of the year 2007' gong.

Firelok
04-04-2007, 10:01
Guiness and Jack Daniels? Bah! I do have standards to maintain you know.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/matthill999/withnail_antifreeze.jpg

^^My mothers favourite movie and possibly the greatest piece of cinematography ever, and enormously funny too. Camberwell Carrot anyone?

This looks like it's shaping up to be a corker MajorD BTW. Very unusual planeset+good research which is a special combo.

irish
04-04-2007, 14:59
this map is going to be cool. i can believe this is the Dutch Indies. Rufemaniaous:)

stanford
04-04-2007, 15:31
Don't think I don't notice you trying to show me and Firelok up in the signature leagues, Paulie!

pfft

Graphic Designers ... pansies!

Firelok
04-04-2007, 16:41
Don't think I don't notice you trying to show me and Firelok up in the signature leagues, Paulie!

pfft

Graphic Designers ... pansies!

Quite right too Standfy Old Bean, mine took literally seconds dragging a box across the screen and pressing crop-selection.
You can just tell he's got one of those tabletty-board thingys rather than an honest mouse, bet you he uses some high-faluting Adobe FingerPainting thing too.
Nevermind I shall change mine for something less aeroplane-y that'll fox the blighters.

Algorex
04-04-2007, 16:46
What you can't do it MSpaint is not worth doing at all.

DD_Rattler
04-04-2007, 16:52
There's my new sig: one from my squad forum...done in MS Paint, actually! Wish I had photoshop - anyone know how to use GIMP well?

stanford
04-04-2007, 16:58
What you can't do it MSpaint is not worth doing at all.


You're right!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk2sPl_Z7ZU


Check that baby out. Bet you can't do that with Adobe Finger Painting, Paulie! :D

Firelok
04-04-2007, 17:14
Well Old MajorDamage has got his work cut out to finish this mission before his thread is well and truly hijacked, I reckon.YouTube Mona Lisa is brilliant BTW great link.

Zorin
04-04-2007, 20:22
Made a new signature today, but somehow the compression ruined the details..wish I were a Graphics Designer *sigh*

MajorDamage
04-04-2007, 22:16
Right, yes, thanks everyone.

I realise I may have asked for this by posting a picture of a man in his pants drinking lighter fluid, (it's from a film called 'Withnail and I' just in case anyone thinks I'm even weirder than I actually am), but unless you have something to say about the map, might I politely suggest you all b****r off to the Community Chat section of this 'ere forum and stop spamming the thread.

:rolleyes:

stanford
04-04-2007, 22:35
*ahem* yes, back to business please. Nothing to see here.

DD_Rattler
04-04-2007, 22:43
Sry mate. Can't wait to give it a go. I'll fly for the Dutch.

Here's some other info I gleaned from the 'net:

The small number of Hawks committed to the Java campaign, combined with the chaos and confusion of the Japanese advance, makes it difficult to draw many conclusions about its capabilities. Even over Soerabaja the 12 Hawks were divided into three patrols, limiting whatever impact they might have had. Other equipment, including the Buffalo, Hurricane, P-40 and Curtiss-Wright CW-21B Demon - a lightweight, fast-climbing interceptor that might have posed a threat to the Japanese under better circumstances - also fared poorly in the East Indies campaign.

from: http://curtisshawk75.bravepages.com/

Zorin
04-04-2007, 23:41
Right, yes, thanks everyone.

I realise I may have asked for this by posting a picture of a man in his pants drinking lighter fluid, (it's from a film called 'Withnail and I' just in case anyone thinks I'm even weirder than I actually am), but unless you have something to say about the map, might I politely suggest you all b****r off to the Community Chat section of this 'ere forum and stop spamming the thread.

:rolleyes:

Yeah, sorry major :( I'm just desperately trying to fit in a little more as I do seem to clash with people around here more often than usual. Yesterday it was Boemher, tonight System... Hell, I even made a Spitfire gauge for my signature to fit this british community, which is filled with words, sayings and whatnot that I never heard of...Really makes you feel like an alien...

Paulie
05-04-2007, 00:19
Don't think I don't notice you trying to show me and Firelok up in the signature leagues, Paulie!

pfft

Graphic Designers ... pansies!

Pansies? Why thank you, I didn't know you cared. They will go nicely with the primroses algore sent me last week.

Algorex
05-04-2007, 00:59
Sry mate. Can't wait to give it a go. I'll fly for the Dutch.

Here's some other info I gleaned from the 'net:

The small number of Hawks committed to the Java campaign, combined with the chaos and confusion of the Japanese advance, makes it difficult to draw many conclusions about its capabilities. Even over Soerabaja the 12 Hawks were divided into three patrols, limiting whatever impact they might have had. Other equipment, including the Buffalo, Hurricane, P-40 and Curtiss-Wright CW-21B Demon - a lightweight, fast-climbing interceptor that might have posed a threat to the Japanese under better circumstances - also fared poorly in the East Indies campaign.

from: http://curtisshawk75.bravepages.com/

Nice one, but i'm afraid adding planes like p-40C, hurricane and "regular" zero would take away from the uniqueness of this map.

And sadly we don't have the hawk 75 as flyable, as a finn it's on the top of my wish list. Performance wise the closest thing to the mohawk is the buffalo mk I.

MajorDamage
05-04-2007, 11:02
Hell, I even made a Spitfire gauge for my signature to fit this british community, which is filled with words, sayings and whatnot that I never heard of...Really makes you feel like an alien...

No need to feel like an alien Zorin, your comments are always appreciated and taken on board here. :)

MajorDamage
05-04-2007, 11:19
The small number of Hawks committed to the Java campaign, combined with the chaos and confusion of the Japanese advance, makes it difficult to draw many conclusions about its capabilities. Even over Soerabaja the 12 Hawks were divided into three patrols, limiting whatever impact they might have had. Other equipment, including the Buffalo, Hurricane, P-40 and Curtiss-Wright CW-21B Demon - a lightweight, fast-climbing interceptor that might have posed a threat to the Japanese under better circumstances - also fared poorly in the East Indies campaign.

from: http://curtisshawk75.bravepages.com/

This is a map based on the Borneo campaign, however, and not Java. From the reading I've done it seems that resources on both sides were pretty stretched and they didn't really have all the best front line fighters at their disposal. The only Dutch plane from your list that might have been present would be the CW-21B, but it doesn't look like that one was there either.

Dutch Air Force OOB in the East Indies (http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/Dutch_OOB.html)

I can't even find any indication that the Ki-43 was used, but I've added it anyway for the sake of balance, because I don't think the Rufe will stand up to the Buffalo on it's own, and the Ki-27 is just a bit outclassed.

Thanks for the info though Rattler, if you find any other useful links please post 'em here. This has been a real start-from-scratch research exercise for me cos I knew absolutely nothing about this campaign when I started.

DD_Rattler
05-04-2007, 20:40
From what I've seen, the Dutch simply moved their aircraft to scratch-built forward airfields, and used mainly B-339 Buffaloes, the Buffalo Mk. 1 - nice, because it has a bomb loadout as well.

Their small numbers of Demons and Hawks were used up pretty quickly, and the Japanese had the advantage of already having been at war since 1934.

I'll talk around to some older gents in my community, and see if any of them served in Indonesia, or know people who did.

My own father just about was sent over there during the Indonesian War of Independance when he was conscripted after the war, but it was over by then.

MajorDamage
13-04-2007, 13:53
Sent this in for testing.

Algorex
13-04-2007, 14:24
Sent this in for testing.

Friday the 13th ;)

MajorDamage
13-04-2007, 21:40
Test seemed to go ok, despite a few < whine and < why-aren't-there-109G6s-and-La5s merchants. Nothing was broken. Blues won the map with a few minutes to spare, Reds didn't seem to go after their targets all that much.

I'm surprised how well the ki-27 did against the Buffalo. Quite a few people complaing the Buffalo wasn't up to it, which I find odd cos it's a lot faster than the Ki-27 and better armed. I think there's probably no need to have the Ki-43 on it though.

Firelok/Algore/any other regular who was present - I'd be interested to see what you thought.

Firelok
14-04-2007, 10:02
Well I think it went rather well, some massive furballs in the centre of the island no apparent camping issues that I know might have been a concern of yours.

Buffalo is 'the' plane on this map I think but it's not overly dominant in any way.
As for the 109vsLa5FN crowd, s*d them this is a bit of a connoisseurs map with an unusual background and unusual planes, this is a good thing.

Getting everyone to use Dutch markings will be a bit of a slog but this will happen eventually (lots of people use the French ones for RYAF on Belgrade now.)

My only technical concern is the neutral fuel trucks under that bridge, I'm not too convinced about ServerCommanders ability to deal with these correctly within a target radius.

Lastly and this is 'picky b*stard firelok' mode could we have tarted up oil wagons at the refinery? a bit like this....
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e150/firelokc/borneooil.jpg

THere seemed to be no lagginess issues so a few portflooring objects shouldn't cause problems here and there.:)

All in all a good test of a unusual pacific scenario that will be a good addition to the UK2 cycle I feel.
P.S. and almost zero post submission work to be done by me, Hurrah!:D

MajorDamage
14-04-2007, 14:27
Buffalo is 'the' plane on this map I think but it's not overly dominant in any way.
As for the 109vsLa5FN crowd, s*d them this is a bit of a connoisseurs map with an unusual background and unusual planes, this is a good thing.

There were a few individuals complaining that the Buffalo was underpowered and that the ki-27 was too fast :rolleyes: From watching the track I suspect these may have been the same buffoons who were trying to turn fight in it.
I'm not particularly bothered by the 109vLa5 lot, though it can be dispiriting when you've spent weeks researching and developing a map to see people take one look at it and type < vote, without even trying it.


Getting everyone to use Dutch markings will be a bit of a slog but this will happen eventually (lots of people use the French ones for RYAF on Belgrade now.)
On Belgrade the other day I asked someone in a 109 with French roundels to change their markings. Force of habit, had to apologise profusely :o :D


My only technical concern is the neutral fuel trucks under that bridge, I'm not too convinced about ServerCommanders ability to deal with these correctly within a target radius.
Ah, but I've thought of that. The target co-ordinate is set a way back south of the river with the radius calculated so it includes the targets on the outside of the circle but misses out the trucks under the bridge (might include 1 or 2 of them but the % is set to 80). The < targets command seemed to return a sensible number anyway.


Lastly and this is 'picky b*stard firelok' mode could we have tarted up oil wagons at the refinery?

Be as picky as you like mate, I'm not at all precious about it! Picky is good if it keeps the quality level up. You're right - the oilfield area generally needs some attention aesthetically, as well as a couple of other areas on the map. I held off finishing all the prettification because I wanted to get the general gameplay issues tested first. I was a bit concerned this might have been a non-starter and would need a complete re-design.

Fusek
14-04-2007, 16:02
I missed the test :'( I think I wont be going out tonight and wait for it to play I think :P

Algorex
14-04-2007, 16:05
I missed the test :'( I think I wont be going out tonight and wait for it to play I think :P

Just join TS and ask for a test, usually within few maps you'll get your chance. :rolleyes:

Fusek
14-04-2007, 19:32
Managed to play two sorties tonight, and I loved it. Playing red (of course), the Buffalo really shines over the ki27, climbs better, especially circle-climbing. Also nice is luring ki27 pilots in a neg g move and whatch the engine die!

Firelok
24-04-2007, 10:39
OK we've uploaded a higher detail version of Borneo, If there are any problems Major_Damage has provided an intermediate version too and we can go with that. I hope we don't have too the full-fat version is very handsome indeed.

Firelok
17-05-2007, 09:11
I've added this to the map cycle after Balta.

MajorDamage
17-05-2007, 13:19
I'm not terribly happy with the way this map turned out TBH chaps. Trying to be a bit too bloody clever I think! The problem is the matchup of Buffalo and Ki27/Ki43. I'm hoping against hope that there is a 4.09 patch that includes the CW21 as has been rumoured, which would allow a more diverse end balanced planeset potentially. Unlikely but you never know.

When I get to make a bit more time for FMB stuff I'll maybe revisit the Dutch East Indies campaign with a completely different approach to replace this map. In the meantime I'm happy enough for it to be in the cycle but please be prepared to pull it if it's emptying the server. The last time we tried it even I was typing < time into the chatbar. :rolleyes:

Firelok
15-07-2007, 19:02
I think there is a very valid argument to be made to swap the Ki-43a for the Ki-43c. Rightly or wrongly flying blue here can seem a bit of a lost cause and the addition of a bit more Oomph! (apologies for technobabble.) to Blue side might help. A lot of players left rather than sticking this one out today, in general the Buffalo pilots are having fun and flying red is a favourable experience.

NS-IceFire
15-07-2007, 21:37
Ki-27 is nice with its incredible maneuvering but the Ki-43 does need that extra little punch to it. I think that would make things much better. Its a great and fun little map...I enjoyed it allot but I was flying for Red.

I do think that there will always be some that are unhappy with these maps because they don't have a La-7 or a Spitfire or a 109...its a bit tough for them to be off the beaten track but we'll teach them yet!

MD_Warlock
15-07-2007, 23:48
IMO the reason why no one sticks around in this map (which I absolutely love BTW) is because they don't fly the planes to their strengths or use team tactics.

Buffalos when used in a BnZ mode on this one are great. Ki27 needs patience and alt, but when you have E in it, it is nearly impossible to be shot down in...turns too tight for the mighty Buffalo. Too many people think that the Zero float plane is the best plane on the map, and therefore find out the hard way it isn't.

MajorDamage
16-07-2007, 10:54
Yeah I'd agree with all this, it's true that the Ki43a just doesn't have enough firepower to take down a Buffalo. I pondered this for quite some time and the reason I limited it to the Ki43a was that I was worried the b or c models might be a bit much for the Buffalo. Also I was kind of struggling to make the floatplane an attractive option rather than just a pointless novelty like it is on most maps. It still has it's uses as a ground strafer but it's never going to be a match for the Buffalo.

I'd say add the Ki43b and c. Do you think we need to move the tracy island that they fly from a bit closer to the targets also? (Don't worry Firelok I can do that if needs be ;) ) I deliberately made it quite a long flight time in order to reduce the frequency of the Ki43's and make the Ki27 and A6m2N more attractive, but that might not have been all that clever.

I know this map will always be unpopular with the mainstream Spit/G2/La5 crowd but I'd also hope that it might keep a loyal cult following of those that like something a bit different. Last time I played it it managed to keep 20 players or so - some left, some joined, but a whole load left as soon as the next map loaded (Byelorussia). We can always cut down the target percentages and reduce the time limit on the map maybe. And then follow it with a map that is an orgy of Spit vs 109 vs La5 uberness.

Sonko
16-07-2007, 12:00
Zero Floatplane rocks both, air and ground, me likes the map. Never flown a 27 there, though.

Firelok
16-07-2007, 14:02
Do you think we need to move the tracy island that they fly from a bit closer to the targets also? (Don't worry Firelok I can do that if needs be ) I deliberately made it quite a long flight time in order to reduce the frequency of the Ki43's and make the Ki27 and A6m2N more attractive, but that might not have been all that clever.

What about putting the Ki43b on the land base and the Ki43c as 'bomber escort' from Tracy Island. With no shifting of anything? I can sort that pretty quick if you concur.

The Rufe Zero still has a place and as far as this map goes has awesome firepower and does get kills. Using the Rufe to defend the offshore fleet against Catalina attacks is the way to go. Also provided it's not on it's own it sure can ruin a Buffalo's day.

What really makes me smile about this, is the crazy idea that if you snap off the floats of the Rufe it flies better. Is this an Urban Myth?

MD_Warlock
16-07-2007, 14:26
I've snapped a few off (but I was flying a Buffalo at the time :D)...

MajorDamage
16-07-2007, 15:19
What about putting the Ki43b on the land base and the Ki43c as 'bomber escort' from Tracy Island. With no shifting of anything? I can sort that pretty quick if you concur.

The Rufe Zero still has a place and as far as this map goes has awesome firepower and does get kills. Using the Rufe to defend the offshore fleet against Catalina attacks is the way to go. Also provided it's not on it's own it sure can ruin a Buffalo's day.

What really makes me smile about this, is the crazy idea that if you snap off the floats of the Rufe it flies better. Is this an Urban Myth?

That sounds like it's worth trying at least. I suspect it will now be a big Buffalo vs Ki43 fest (with the Ki43 ruling) but we'll see.

As regards the Rufe float-snappers, yeah they're totally wasting their time. You can snap off all the floats and it still has the same crappy flight characteristics. But they think they've made themselves a fully-fledged Zero so they're happy :D

Firelok
16-07-2007, 16:42
I suspect it will now be a big Buffalo vs Ki43 fest (with the Ki43 ruling) but we'll see.
It's still Buffalo (BnZ) vs Ki43 (TnB) with the Buffalo outgunning the Ki43 but maybe by not as much.