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NS-IceFire
21-03-2007, 21:37
Tirpitz2

http://colin.polariscreations.com/images/tirpitz01.jpg
http://colin.polariscreations.com/images/tirpitz02.jpg
http://colin.polariscreations.com/images/tirpitz03.jpg
http://colin.polariscreations.com/images/tirpitz04.jpg

Axis Planes:
Bf-109G-2
Bf-109G-6_Late
Bf-110G-2
Fw-190A-5
He-111H-6
Ju-88A-4

Allied Planes:
F6F-3
FM-2
Corsair Mk II
Seafire Mk III
Beaufighter Mk 21
Mosquito FB VI

The Corsair, Beau, and Mosquito are also available at the runway that I've placed nearby. The runway serves the purpose of allowing the Mossie and Beau up in this corner of the map in a reasonable amount of time and also to let the Corsair II get off the deck with a full load of bombs.

As before the objective is for the Axis to sink the Allied ships. They are otherwise defending the Tirpitz. The travel times are a bit unusual as three points of action are arranged in a triangle instead of in a linear fashion. Not sure how this would go for balance although its a bit longer for the Allies to fly to the Tirpitz than the Axis. Slightly.

I also want to make the Allied flight in such a way that you need to sink all of the support ships but leave the carriers alone and not give the Allied side that 2000m advantage. I'm open to all sorts of suggestions.

FlyingFinn
21-03-2007, 21:46
No vastly superior Hurris to sink the Tirp?:p

Zorin
21-03-2007, 21:47
Been eagerly waiting for you to finish this mission and now I'm desperate to try it out. :)

Only thing you might want to change is the weather. Bit dull and won't help making atmospheric AARs ;)

MajorDamage
21-03-2007, 22:19
What? No Pe8? :eek:

I protest!!!!! :D

NS-IceFire
21-03-2007, 22:31
No, no Pe-8...but maybe the Avenger Mark III? I'm thinking the real killer of the Tirpitz will be Corsairs and a full bomb load.

I think I've since changed the weather to Good from Clear but I wanted to have that nice wide open feel. Perhaps Hazy would be in order....

I think its mostly a reflection of my mood since its been so overcast and dreary until yesterday and we finally had one of those days where the sky is a deep blue color...something you only can get in a northern climate in my experience.

Firelok
21-03-2007, 23:02
If you went for SBD5's and Beaufighters, I could then feel less guilty about doing a 633squadron Norway map with just Mossies:D

It looks great, what of the runours that spawning bigger than single engined planes isn't possible on these Norway airfields? is that only the southern one?

Algorex
22-03-2007, 00:37
Superb work as usual ice

IIRC it's only the banak base that is limited to Bf110s and smaller.

Yellow 2
22-03-2007, 09:25
I'm not sure which Corsair the Mk11 is but if it isn't the early 'Birdcage' version could I make a plea that it's changed to that . It may be just me but it's the only one that has anything like an acceptable view to the rear. The parasol over your head on all the others makes looking behind a nightmare. :)

Boemher
22-03-2007, 15:04
Yellow2, try pressing the button to raise your seat, with open cockpit apparently you can your own tail with seat raised in F4U

NS-IceFire
22-03-2007, 22:46
Seeing as we don't have the Corsair Mark I on any maps as far as I'm aware...I could add it as a bonus from the land base...

@Firelok: I really want to keep the Mossie...but I can remove it if needed :)

Yellow 2
23-03-2007, 08:56
Yellow2, try pressing the button to raise your seat, with open cockpit apparently you can your own tail with seat raised in F4U

Never thought of that! :D

MajorDamage
23-03-2007, 17:40
In order to avoid hijacking this thread with a digression I have started a new thread about the Pe8 here:

http://www.battle-fields.com/commscentre/showthread.php?p=142725#post142725

Xiola
31-03-2007, 19:09
Oh wow, I love Tirpitz 1 so much.

This one looks damn cool too!

I never flew the Pe8 on this map tbh, preferring the FW190A on blue or the Hellcat or Seafire on red.

One of the rare maps which has Hellcat vs German fighters. I think it does very well actually! It actually turns really well, you dont usually notice because its up against the uber turning Zero. :)

irish
31-03-2007, 21:47
Oh wow, I love Tirpitz 1 so much.

This one looks damn cool too!

I never flew the Pe8 on this map tbh, preferring the FW190A on blue or the Hellcat or Seafire on red.

One of the rare maps which has Hellcat vs German fighters. I think it does very well actually! It actually turns really well, you dont usually notice because its up against the uber turning Zero. :)

The USN (well, USN crates flown by the RN) vs the Luftwaffe is a killer matchup all around.

Corsair/Hellcat vs 109/190=mmmm, mmmm, Good
:p

NS-IceFire
31-03-2007, 22:08
Thats one of the reasons I did the first one. Just such a radically different planeset than everyone is typically used to flying with.

I'm still working on this one...had to take a break from working on any maps recently but I'm sure it'll have it ready to go soon enough.

stanford
01-04-2007, 02:49
Take your time, mate. I'd hate to see a map maker of your calibre burn out. Thanks for supporting the server as you do!

NS-IceFire
03-04-2007, 02:21
Thanks stanford! I do appreciate it. I'm suffering a tiny bit of burn out but I think it will come back to me soon. C&C3 consumed much of my gaming time last weekend anyways :D

NS-IceFire
03-06-2007, 15:30
Just to let you guys know...I'm back on track with this map. And its nearly done....had to take a bit of a break on things.

slm
03-06-2007, 16:41
At least I've been waiting for maps that use this Norway map, so this is good news.

NS-IceFire
04-06-2007, 05:44
I think there are two others already on the server...but I haven't yet seen them.

Final plane list (debate welcome):

Luftwaffe:
Bf109G-2
Bf109G-6 Late
Bf110G-2
FW190A-5
Ju-88A-4
He-111H-6

Royal Navy:
Seafire Mark L.III
Corsair Mark II
F6F-3 (Hellcat Mark I)
FM-2 (Martlet/Wildcat Mark IV)
Beaufighter Mark 21 (subbing in for the Mark X)
Mosquito Mark FB.VI
Avenger Mark III

Targets:
Royal Navy need to sink the Tirpitz (100%) and other ships (75%). The Luftwaffe needs to sink the Allied fleet (75%).

Not planning to limit anything at this point. The map should give a pretty wide array of options. The Axis have the option of attacking the Allied ships with Bf110s, FW190s, Ju-88s, or He-111s with bombs or torpedoes. The Allies can use bombs or torpedoes on a pretty wide array of aircraft including the AI Avenger Mark IIII.

I have placed a static runway for the Allied ships on a nearby island as sort of a "covert bomber base" setup. The Germans also get an air start at the back of the map just in case the main airfield gets camped and they need another option. Its also in a pretty good spot to have defenders start to fly out towards the Tirpitz...but they do have to travel a couple of squares to do that. I'm open to repositioning if need be but I think its a good spot.

ovod
04-06-2007, 07:56
If i on red side, how i can sink Tirpitz with high altitude using bomb sight?
Where B-25? Need any bomber with bomb sight.

Firelok
04-06-2007, 08:06
I think there are two others already on the server...but I haven't yet seen them.
We don't have any active Norway maps on the UK2 server, we've been waiting for Tirpitz2. I got asked if I could do a DF version of the final 633squadron mission but I've been a bit shy of this.

Hope we can see Tirpitz2 soon:)

NS-IceFire
04-06-2007, 22:21
Should be done in the next day or so :)

How does everyone feel about the B-25 as ovod has asked for? Not really a theater plane here...but I could be open to adding it. Does everyone feel that the combined Corsairs, Hellcats, Beaufighter, and Mosquito options being enough? Thats what I was thinking...I mean four or five guys in a Corsair II with 2x1000lb bombs should be able to do it. I think.

Zorin
04-06-2007, 22:35
We have always been pretty successful with our Mosquito formations and Corsair sweeps, so I don't think there is a need for a B25.

Firelok
04-06-2007, 22:46
We have always been pretty successful with our Mosquito formations and Corsair sweeps, so I don't think there is a need for a B25.

I agree with Zorin on this one, the old Tirpitz map does have 4 engine heavies but not really employed in a lvl bomb role. Mosquito attack en-masse is really spirit of it I think.

NS-IceFire
05-06-2007, 04:12
Ok, we'll keep the B-25 on hold (sorry ovod) and if there is a need to evaluate attack options then we'll have a look at adding it in.

NS-IceFire
05-06-2007, 04:21
E-mailed to Firelok. Like to see this in testing sometime!

Algorex
05-06-2007, 04:34
E-mailed to Firelok. Like to see this in testing sometime!

I'm thinking tonight ;)

Firelok
05-06-2007, 08:30
I've uploaded this. Only one change by me, the brief (properties file) was totally blank so I pasted in the existing Tirpitz breif but updated the target info to fit the new map, hope this is Ok. the map is called Tirpitz2.mis

NS-IceFire
05-06-2007, 22:12
*smack*

Haha...yeah the brain doesn't work like it used to. I'll probably do up a proper briefing. Undoubtedly there will be a couple of tweaks to make so I'll do it up then. Thanks for taking care of that Firelok.

Zorin
05-06-2007, 23:07
Tested with like 22 players. Everything worked fine as far as I can tell, only problem is the fact that the Tirpitz is down after two passes with Mossies.

Guess you should relocate either the red airstart or the Tirpitz itself.

System-M-
05-06-2007, 23:31
I would like to see the tipitz deep in a valley somewhere with AA lining the edge. I know u have a static camera in M14 that would eba good location to put the tirpitz and moves it another grid or 2 further away from the red airstart.

[DH]Chris89
06-06-2007, 00:16
Good mission, but didn't take the Red's to long to win though

Boemher
06-06-2007, 02:06
Thats cos the Mossies were getting through to target unmolested. Ive attacked the Tirpitz 3 times now and havent seen a Blue fighter until Ive already dropped. On missions where you can count targets on one hand you really need to cover your targets otherwise one or two good sorties by 3 or 4 players will win the map.

NS-IceFire
06-06-2007, 02:33
Hadn't counted on that being an air start actually...that might make things a bit harder. Not sure why thats an air start...something I'm missing?

Targets for blue is a wee bit buggy...just one target in a group that should have 4-5.

Algorex
06-06-2007, 12:34
Hadn't counted on that being an air start actually...that might make things a bit harder. Not sure why thats an air start...something I'm missing?

Targets for blue is a wee bit buggy...just one target in a group that should have 4-5.

The test airfields seem to cause an airstart on random especially with twin engined planes, same thing happens on vadso wiht the western red base more often than not the bostons and pe-2s get airstarts. Although i haven't seen it happen on Caen with mossies on it.

NS-IceFire
21-06-2007, 05:11
I'll try one of the other bases and see if it happens. I'm going to think about maybe putting a few smaller ships alongside the Tirpitz like in the old map if that helps make it a bit more difficult.

I'm going to try and fix some of the target problems too. Might be a bit of trial and error on that mind you. Any other suggestions or comments? I'd like to submit a more final edition shortly.

slm
23-06-2007, 05:57
I played this yesterday and the red team won the map very quickly. Things end very soon compared to the old Tirpitz map where defenders have more time to find especially those bombers with long flight time.

Would it be possible to change the location of at least some of the ships so that the mountains would make it more difficult to attack?

see:
http://www.bismarck-class.dk/tirpitz/miscellaneous/tirpitz_kaafjord_then_and_now/tirpitz_kaafjord_then_and_now.html

Firelok
23-06-2007, 08:19
Hadn't counted on that being an air start actually...that might make things a bit harder. Not sure why thats an air start...something I'm missing?

Targets for blue is a wee bit buggy...just one target in a group that should have 4-5.

I suspect the reason for it airstarting is the amount of Test Runway spawn points, theres only one runway so the game adds the other players in as airstarts around it, Vadso has two Test Runways for each red airfield and the airstarts only happen when there are lots of red bombers spawning. For the Scheldt map I had I think 4 runways and no airstarts have happened with all of red team starting there (the same is true of the Caen map aswell.)

Out of curiosity I've tweaked the size of this bomber airfield providing more test runways. The other secondary ship targets for reds should show up now after having poked the .ini file a little.

Firelok
28-06-2007, 11:52
One of the things I thought was an issue with the original Tirpitz was that Blues are attacking 4 carriers. Setting aside how tough these are compared to the Tirpitz itself, isn't there an inbuilt disadvantage to Blues in attacking these?

Sink a carrier and Reds get an airstart, this is the crazy way IL2 has decided to do things. 4 or 5 Capital class ships and some destroyers as a target for Blues
with the carriers pushed back out of the target area might sidestep the problem.

It's an arrangement thats gone into a few Pacific maps (Marianas for example.) that works well.

Boemher
07-12-2007, 16:00
Ive just flown this with no one on the server and could not get within range of the German ships to bomb them without dying lol

3 attempts in the Mosquito and the closest I got was bombs released a split second before my plane was blown up by all the ships AAA converging on me. I attacked at as high a speed as the Mosquito would allow before breaking up and the flak was phenomenal. The heavy guns open up at long range and high alt and follow you all the way down to low level and to light flak range.

I recommend trying this if you want to experience an exhilerating death ride!

Ive never had any trouble making it to and from targets when server is half full on this map. So dont change anything!

Firelok
07-12-2007, 16:29
Out of interest did you type <time in when you joined?

It's quite possible that the 2 for 1 deal on time we have got used to with ServerCommander might have sorted itself out. Which means Tirpitz2 lasts longer (2 hours) than the ships sleep times. So that rather than being shot at by one or two awake vessels everything is shooting.

Last time I updated the length of all the maps to 1 to 1 timings it went back to 2 to 1 within a day or two, this time I'm watching things to see if they stay 'fixed' rather than our usual 'double speed' UK2 time.

slm
07-12-2007, 16:32
I just tried this when there were 3 pilots on both sides. I used Beafighter and a torpedo. When I attacked there were no other planes in the area. I managed to get close enough by flying just above sea surface. Torpedo away, more altitude to avoid crashing into hills behind the ships and still alive. Gunner wounded though.

Boemher
07-12-2007, 18:37
I didnt check the time but it seemed to be running normally. Definitely the whole fleet opened up in unison however. Beaufighter is a mite tougher than the Mosquito slm :)

At the end of the map Sonko I and Irish attacked the Tirpitz in Mossies and did a one pass attack at max speed so flak was split 3 ways. I took a mild dose, Sonko got a fuel leak and Irish got off scot free ;)

slm
07-12-2007, 19:31
I must mention that I didn't attack Tirpitz in that fjord, but those other ships in J13. I'd think that it's not just how tough a plane is, but using torpedo means you don't have to get as close to target.

NS-IceFire
07-12-2007, 22:33
The other ships in J13 are quite tough. They may need to be toned down a bit...I know several attacks I've made in a Corsair were extremely difficult attacks although flying the right sort of attack pattern normally results in getting to target unscathed but its the subsequent flying over and retreat that is difficult.

Even the Tirpitz target is challenging. I was considering, after having played the mission several times, that shore mounted AAA batteries would be more appropriate and all ships are sleeping. Ship AAA is just so deadly...if not in accuracy...then in volume.

slm
08-12-2007, 11:01
I read that they had smoke screen generating equipment around some ships. Those could hide the ship behind a wall of smoke in a few minutes.

I tested this by placing some Smoke Type 4 objects around the ship and it makes accurate bombing more difficult. But the effect is a bit weird because smoke/light objects are shown only when you're close enough. So first you see the ship just fine, but when flying closer a huge smoke appears out of nowhere.