new map: Crimea41

[bokatar]

I've been working 7-8 hours straight for it.. Objectives are complete, airfields and briefing parts left..

Unfortunately, I might have added too many objects here and there. It'll eat your CPU for breakfast without doubt.. :) ( or :( depending on mood)

I'm too tired to post screenies now, stay tuned...

[Scrappy_D]

Staying tuned :)


Good work m8 ....

[FlyingFinn]

Staying tuned as well.

/me want to see early ostfront maps without das überoverwhelming butcherbirds.

[bokatar]

Planeset ( may change slightly ):

Axis:

Bf-109 E4 - E4/B
He-111 H2
Ju-87 B2
IAR 80 -81a

Soviet:

I-16 Type 24
Lagg3 Series 4
Pe-2 Series 1
Pe-3, 3-bis
TB-3


Have to warn you though, the map may be a complete failure cause I've never used that much object in a map before..

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j25/bokatar/crimea5.jpg

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j25/bokatar/crimea1.jpg

Every single building (literally) has a traincar inside..

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j25/bokatar/crimea8.jpg

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j25/bokatar/crimea2.jpg

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j25/bokatar/crimean7.jpg

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j25/bokatar/crimean4.jpg

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j25/bokatar/crimean3.jpg



Red team has to complete 3 objectives out of 4 ( cars, armor, ship, and ground ). No need to worry, as you can see they're all in the same area.

Hopefully, level bombing will be fun for both sides..

[T.}{.O.R.]

When can we expect it?! *drewl*

That large He111 formation just might stand a chance against Laggs and I-16s. If we can keep Pe-3s out that is... :D


This map coveres areas in which we see very little level bombing - He111s and Pe-2s (only one formation drop with I can remember) => SWEET!

[Happy]

impressive pictures, don't worry about the objects, I've used a lot in my 2 only maps and they seem to work ok.

knowing the amount of work that goes into this, this one looks very good.

looking forward to this one, like the planeset II ;)

[bokatar]

map is ready, uploading it now for test trials..

[Professor]

*loading bombs in my He-111, and petting it *
Can I have H6 please? :D

[T.}{.O.R.]

First test report:

A bit lagy, not too bad.

Bombers got slaughtered by rockets, we never reached enemy territory...

[Algorex]

First test report:

A bit lagy, not too bad.

Bombers got slaughtered by rockets, we never reached enemy territory...

You'd been slaughtered even without the rockets, interceptors had altitude, numbers (due position relayed over chat) and some organisation.

All the "escorts" i saw were lower than the bombers...

No lags for me though, promising early-war map.

[Paulie]

Good map. Plenty of time to form large wings of bombers and organise countermeasures.
First flight of 6 He111s were slaughtered by a PE3, this prompted some discussion about its validity in the planeset. Apart from that there was a little lag but the server was practically full so that was acceptible really.

Further testing required, but first signs are very positive.:D

[Zorin]

Keep the Pe-3 and leave out the Pe-3bis, only a few were produced in later years of the war.

But I'm more interested in how the E4 and LaGG match up, cause ti is an odd choice to have them face each other. E7 or F2 would be more reasonable, IMO.

[irish]

Keep the Pe-3 and leave out the Pe-3bis, only a few were produced in later years of the war.

But I'm more interested in how the E4 and LaGG match up, cause ti is an odd choice to have them face each other. E7 or F2 would be more reasonable, IMO.

took a look at E4 v LaGG in IL2compare.


E4 climbs and dives faster

Turn time is the same (23.3 secs)

The LaGG has the speed advantage in level flight

[Happy]

Got 2 H111 bombers in one sortie in my LAGG3, last H111 gunner got me in the head but he was reported on fire and loosing altitude fast.

Red had a big search party out in several grids looking and reporting in when they spotted the enemy formation. All the pilots where bent on the same purpose of finding, intercepting and ultimately decimate the incoming invader force off the motherland.

would like to suggest header on the briefing that no rocket should be used to intercept and destroy bombers..

no idea on how a pe3 would influence this yet if it has a huge cannon this can be a bit of a :( on the bombers, while a lagg3 with normal configuration can down a H111 also. maybe have a look at early IL2 since I recall the russians use them also for bomber interception.


BTW, did someone record that first H111 flight??
couldn't believe my luck and fortune of hitting those H111..

[Zorin]

The IL2 fighter was a mid-late war thing.

You see irish, even against a F4 the LaGGseries4 can prevail with ease when flown to its strength and seeing it face a early 1940 plane while itself being a mid 1941 fighter(Only 322 were ready on June 22,1941) just doesn't sound right for me.

[bokatar]

Keep the Pe-3 and leave out the Pe-3bis, only a few were produced in later years of the war.

I rechecked the Pe3-bis info from the game and it says it successfully fought near Moscow, not Sevastopol as I remember. So Pe-3bis will be removed from the set..

But I'm more interested in how the E4 and LaGG match up, cause ti is an odd choice to have them face each other. E7 or F2 would be more reasonable, IMO.

I believe it's quite an even match up, I don't think that anybody else will have a problem with that?


would like to suggest header on the briefing that no rocket should be used to intercept and destroy bombers..

That's what I was planning to do even before I was done with all the objectives and details and such. Can't believe how I forgot to do that. If only we had the loadout restriction option in FBD... :(


Anyway, I'm glad to hear that the first impression is generally positive..

[Zorin]

From ianboys: LaGG-3 series 4 - at the very start of the war this was present only around Leningrad. There were none at all in the 5 western frontier districts. In common use from the German attack on Moscow in Nov.41

[bokatar]

From ianboys: LaGG-3 series 4 - at the very start of the war this was present only around Leningrad. There were none at all in the 5 western frontier districts. In common use from the German attack on Moscow in Nov.41

Yes I read it as well, however we do not necessarily have to use 100% accurate planesets in our maps do we? ( as long as a fair matchup is achieved ) Co-ops is a better way to try such scenarios IMO, where you can limit team and plane numbers, etc..

[Zorin]

If we have the chance, why not. I would really like to see the F2 face the MIG uD here. Both are equal in performance and would really aid the high altitude bombing style of the map, IMO.

[bokatar]

Updated the briefing ( regarding the misuse of rockets ) and slightly changed the planeset ( removed Pe-3 bis and added limited numbers of Mig-3 1940 and Lagg-3 Series 4 ( 3 or 4 I believe ))

I think it's ready to give it another go..

(Btw happy, I'm still waiting for your PM)

[Zorin]

And blues are still stuck with the BoB E4? Please make this realistic and add the E7 and F2, otherwise the map will be a good example for a red biased plane set.

[bokatar]

And blues are still stuck with the BoB E4? Please make this realistic and add the E7 and F2, otherwise the map will be a good example for a red biased plane set.

Zorin m8, I don't understand how is it red-biased at all?! As I said earlier, there are just a few number of Laggs and Migs, not to mention that E4 can easily hold it's own against them with proper tactics. Only obsolete Polikarpov planes left for red team which must be flown with extreme caution ESPECIALLY when there is no F6 view to help you perform ridiculous dodging manuevers..

Get in to a Lagg, and fight against some skilled players of UKD with them in E4s.. If you rule the fights easily ( I admit I'll go :eek: if it happens so ) , then I'll believe that this is indeed a red-biased planeset

[T.}{.O.R.]

Just got back from UKD3 and played that map for a while... Gotta say that from bombers perspective it is a Heaven! I reached that industrial area all by my lonesome (Magnum was covering tho) - and I couldn't believe how big the target is! Not only that, but flak is also spot on. From 3000m alt where I bombed it was so dense and hitting my plane badly - no dewinging or anything. Old H2 was shaking and bumping all over the place but she brought my crew and me home...

I have to try Pe-2 bombing next. Target for blue bombers is a dream for level bombing in formation...:eek:

We need to organise a large He111 formation for this map - and I mean 10+ bombers... ;)

TY Bokatar! Nice touch on the briefing concerning rockets also.

[Algorex]

And blues are still stuck with the BoB E4? Please make this realistic and add the E7 and F2, otherwise the map will be a good example for a red biased plane set.

History wise zorin is right, 507 of the 619 Bf-109s in service at the start of barbarossa were F-models. And to add to the pain majority of them were F4s and the rest were quickly upgraded with the 20mm cannon, so by the autumn 1941 15mm was extremely rare weapon in service.

Performance wise the E4 is the closest match to the Lagg-3s4. The bf109F flies cricles around the early laggs at all speeds and outclimbs it easily. E4 and E7/B are identical in performance.

[bokatar]

History wise zorin is right, 507 of the 619 Bf-109s in service at the start of barbarossa were F-models. And to add to the pain majority of them were F4s and the rest were quickly upgraded with the 20mm cannon, so by the autumn 1941 15mm was extremely rare weapon in service.


I'm perfectly aware of that..

Edit: Guys, it's not all about historical accuracy I'll say this one more time, it's more about balance. I want the red side to enjoy the map as much as the blue side. If I add F4 in this planeset, everytime we play it there will be a huge shifting of players to blue team, or red players leaving the game. If one of you can guarantee me that you're going to keep both sides even all the time, and fly crap planes against überplanes as much as vice versa, I'll gladly make the necessary changes. I know it's impossible to do what I ask, however I always try make maps by looking from both sides..

Don't forget that we're playing a game here. Everybody has to enjoy it, not just half of them...

[Zorin]

On Ukd3 dogfights don't happen to be like on UKd2. Chances of survival are a lot higher or none and therefor negate the effect of limited planes to a certain extend.

And MIG and LaGG are deadly planes if being flown by a team, which is most common for UKd3.

So everything points to adding the E7 and F2. Even so we all know it should be the F4.

[bokatar]

Zorin, did you even read what I wrote up there?? Do you want me to just ignore you??

I'm trying to explain the reasons behind my choices over and over, but you close your ears ( eyes in this case ) and go "I want E7, I want F2" yelling...

So I'm going to quote up your sentences one-by-one, the style which I hate the most but you're leaving me no option!!

On Ukd3 dogfights don't happen to be like on UKd2. Chances of survival are a lot higher or none and therefor negate the effect of limited planes to a certain extend.

UKD3 or 2 doesn't matter, people tend to rush to überplane team all the time. Promise me that you'll play only for redside in this map and I'll add F4..

And MIG and LaGG are deadly planes if being flown by a team, which is most common for UKd3.

Is E4 not?

So everything points to adding the E7 and F2. Even so we all know it should be the F4.

Only history points to that, nothing more.. Common sense suggests just the opposite!

[Zorin]

I don't ignore what you wrote for the last week I simply can't agree with you.

My best sortie so far I had with a LaGGseries4 playing on Ukd2 as part of a team, easily shooting down E7s and F4s, so I know what even a crap pilot like me can do with a LaGG.

Next thing, the E7 has the same performance as the E4, but is even worse in turning and guns, so would be no improvement but historically just correct. And the F2 is agile and fast but lacks in the fire power department (even against a MIG) God forbid you happen to have a LaGG in your sight, only thing you could do is let her go and hope for a cannon armed E7 to come by and have a go. So why on earth am I requesting überplanes here?!?

[bokatar]

I don't ignore what you wrote for the last week I simply can't agree with you.

My best sortie so far I had with a LaGGseries4 playing on Ukd2 as part of a team, easily shooting down E7s and F4s, so I know what even a crap pilot like me can do with a LaGG.

Next thing, the E7 has the same performance as the E4, but is even worse in turning and guns, so would be no improvement but historically just correct. And the F2 is agile and fast but lacks in the fire power department (even against a MIG) God forbid you happen to have a LaGG in your sight, only thing you could do is let her go and hope for a cannon armed E7 to come by and have a go. So why on earth am I requesting überplanes here?!?

Ok, sorry if I sounded harsh..

Well, first of all do you mean E7/B or E7/Z? Well, either way I'm gonna replace E4's with E7/Z and add E7/B and F2 in limited numbers.

The reason behind limited E7/B's is because I want Jabo's to be in a little disadvantage if they want to carry a bomb with them. Heinkel bombing is the essence of this map and I'm trying to encourage that. If E7/B's are not limited, they'll simply rather it to E7/Z, plus a bomb that they can drop in case they're jumped by the red team, still turning and climbing better than E7/Z's.. If they want to fly Jabo's, the majority will have to go with E4/B's, hence a slightest disadvantage..

The reason behind limited F2 is somewhat grey.. Look to Byelorussia map ( not sure if the name's correct, I mean that F2 only map vs. IL2's and TB3 bombers ) the map become simply boring cause people hate those peashooters ( quite understandable ) and wanted them to be replaced with F4s. That's what I'm trying to avoid here..

Anyway, hope it's a compromise...

[Zorin]

Absolutely :)

I really have to admit that I forgot about the Jabo factor, somewhat compromises the afford to install this as a high alt bomber map in the cycle, but maybe a note in the brief would help. At least I have high hopes for Ukded3 being populated by a more sophisticated crowd willing to read a brief before flying.

Well and the E7Z... Somehow I can't figure out what purpose it should sever. At least on a dogfight map. Dogfights above 4500m are so rare and I see most of the people flying her killing the engine because of engaging the boost below 6500m. Best would be to simply leave it out, IMO.

[Zorin]

Just checked and there were only few Bf109E7/Z build.

[FlyingFinn]

Is this the map where LeVola had a drunken rage going on a while back whining about the lack of cannon-armed axis planes? "Boohoo, we can't down them über IL-2s which outturn, outrun, outclimb and outgun our crappy 109F-2s!" :p

[LeVola]

I wasnt drunk but a bad day, and that map didnt help it at all. Only thing is to fly ju88 3000+ meters so il2 cant follow. :mp5: :mad:

[bokatar]

Eh, we had quite some fun tonight in this map, think I'm happy with the planeset and everything for now. I'll add a few static cameras for AAR's or such, and it's ready to be included in rotation..

[Bladebender]

Eh, we had quite some fun tonight in this map, think I'm happy with the planeset and everything for now. I'll add a few static cameras for AAR's or such, and it's ready to be included in rotation..


Good man! :)

Looking forward to it.

[T.}{.O.R.]

I'll add a few static cameras for AAR's or such, and it's ready to be included in rotation..

Just a thing I was missing when I took screenshots from our run (http://www.battle-fields.com/commscentre/showthread.php?t=13832).

We should make it as a prerequrement to map making. I couldn't get a close view of our bombs hitting targets this way... :D

[Firelok]

We should make it as a prerequrement to map making. I couldn't get a close view of our bombs hitting targets this way... :D

Just do a photo recon flight afterwards if you want to be all realistic:p

[T.}{.O.R.]

Just do a photo recon flight afterwards if you want to be all realistic:p

If you think you're up for a recon over that target (with that flak and that many fighters) afterwards - feel free to do so. :D

I'd rather have static cameras. :cool: