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View Full Version : Map Ideas to try and simulate Typhoons



Boemher
17-05-2007, 12:17
Inspired by seeing those Tempest links again Firelok maybe we could make a map that was slightly different to the Usual DDay, Channel 43 itterations where the Tempest is locked to using rocket rails simulating the Typhoon. The use of rocket rails should restrict its speed enough so that Fw 190 A6/8 can catch it.

The map could be a 43 map using the little Red island map replacing Channel 43, the target could be an airbase (not a Blue players one) that is laced with flak and planes with a light armoured division located near by. Red plane set is Spitfire Vb L.F, Spitfire IX c and Tempest V restricted to rocket loadout and maybe Mosquito. Blues have Bf 109 G6 or G2 and Fw 190 A5/6. The map would be a short map of around 60 mins and it would be a hectic scramble around one or two grid spaces.

Alternatively the mission could be set in the Bay of Biscay, using similar map layout to Major Damages map. There were several missions where Spitfires escorted Typhoons out there to attack Merchant shipping. This map could feature a cove rammed with merchant ships covered by multiple flak vessels and shore based light flak - a similar planeset, similar map time, similar idea just a change of target and scenery.

Third idea is to set it just after DDay kind of like Bocage but this time focusing heavily on an anti armour theme for the RAF tactical airforce trying to crush the German Panzer Division threatening to encircle Pattons Shermans. This time Blues can have a decent target themselves - dozens of Shermans - and instead of the Tempest being used almost exclusively as an air to air fighter, which is how it was used in WW2, it will purely representing the Typhoon, making a bit of a change for a 44 map where normally B 25s and P 38s are responsible for the dirty work.

stanford
17-05-2007, 12:24
Tempests, rockets and Mosquito's you say? Well I'm all for it old bean!

I want five Tempests, Line-Abrest, all strafing and rocketing an airbase.

MajorDamage
17-05-2007, 12:51
I like the Patton/Falaise Gap idea. When I think of Typhoons that's the first thing that springs to mind. The only problem would be that it means using that Normandy map yet again, but it would be a very good use of it.

Algorex
17-05-2007, 13:02
The area around Falaise on the Normandy map has very few airfields, the only suitable ones would probably be the Caen concrete for the RAF and Argentan grass for the luftwaffe, so the mission area would be around 5x4 squares.

Zorin
17-05-2007, 13:10
May I remind you of the Tempest going 615 with droptanks without overheating? I'd say a limit to a max of 4-6 in the air would be appropriate. The rest with G2 + G6 and A5/6 is ok.

Algorex
17-05-2007, 13:28
May I remind you of the Tempest going 615 with droptanks without overheating? I'd say a limit to a max of 4-6 in the air would be appropriate. The rest with G2 + G6 and A5/6 is ok.

rocket racks cut more than 30 km/h off the speed of the tempest, if those are mandatory, an A6 could cause problems to it.

Zorin
17-05-2007, 13:55
That is why I referred to the droptank speed. Don't think Oleg made a difference between droptank drag and rocketrack drag.

MajorDamage
17-05-2007, 15:49
Some testing needs to be done regarding speeds perhaps. Does a Tempest with rails do a reasonable job of reperesenting a Typhoon? I suppose the worry is that it'll just be used as a fighter instead of the Spit, but then most folks given the choice would go for the spit anyway.

stanford
17-05-2007, 16:01
Most people can't fly the Tempest properly, so I wouldn't worry.

Boemher
17-05-2007, 16:02
May I remind you of the Tempest going 615 with droptanks without overheating? I'd say a limit to a max of 4-6 in the air would be appropriate. The rest with G2 + G6 and A5/6 is ok.

You dont know about the test conditions Zorin. I set the test, 75% fuel plus drop tanks starting altitude 500m diving down to around 500 km/h to start of the test. There is a huge difference between accelerating from 0 KM/h to 615 km/h and going from 500 km/h to 615 km/h in terms of engine overheat. In my test you can run for minutes with no overheat, in Tiger Talons test you would be overheating by the time you reached 600 km/h.

Besides what part of simulating Typhoons and having rockets load out only did you misinterprete? The Tempest with bombs or rockets cannot breach the 600 km/h mark using any engine managment methods believe me, I have tested it ;)

As for people flying the Tempest as a fighter with rocket rails on , well they are welcome too. It is restricted to around 570 km/h at sea level (not using any exploits ) so over 30 km/h slower than the clean Tempest this brings them within reach of Bf 109s running at around 540 km/h for the G2 and 570 km/h for the A6. On DDay in the past I have been chased down by Fw 190 A6 running at 100% prop pitch when I was returing from targets. the bomb racks despite being tiny give a huge drag increase the rails are worse iirc.

Boemher
17-05-2007, 16:19
Just tested, with rockets it is slower than I imagined, without rockets it is a bit faster than I thought. Please bear in mind that there arent many people who can squeeze this much speed out of the Tempest, feel free to try, and that it is quite difficult to reach this performance when flying and fighting in IL2 given that it requires perfect trimming and timing of the engine revs. On the other hand just jump in to a Fw 190 A6 bang it one full throttle and put 100% pitch on , no need for trim and you get this.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y294/mynameisroland/rock.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y294/mynameisroland/empty.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y294/mynameisroland/Fdubbyah.jpg

Firelok
17-05-2007, 17:27
Strangely circular approach this but that Tempest site I found was because I was searching for general info on the Codename Noball missions that were flown against the V1 sites along fortress europes occupied coast before DDay.
These missions are mentioned in Clostermann's The Big Show and he was flying SpitIX's escorting rocket armed Hurricanes and Anti-Flak Typhoons. Later as part of the Tactical Airforce they were slinging bombs under the SpitIX's too.

If we set up a V1 strike sort of scenario (not unlike Ardennes) and locked the Tempest to fly with rockets we could have a winner. It would be fair enough to be a bit 'historically' flexible about blues planes aswell I think. I found a fair amount of web info about B26 Marauder strikes against these targets too.

An earlier set insisting on rocket armed Tempests would need some careful juggling of possible Blues assets I think, with no FW190D9 or Bf109K this would be FW190 Antons and Gustavs (A/S model?)

I like the idea in general but I'm actually bored of looking at the Normandy map and have't the moral fibre to even do a replacement map on it. I'm thinking of using some other map location entirely.
General planeset ideas for a great mix would be very helpful:)

Zorin
17-05-2007, 19:08
Seeing the new testdata, I'm all in for this type of scenario. :)

Murmansk summer would be nice if people don't mind a fake island. It has the standards of the latest maps in terms of terrain quality and airfield types and would be not the worst stand-in for the rough Bretagne.

Firelok
18-05-2007, 08:45
So... two ideas springing from this then.

1.Early 44(Using Murmansk summer) Reds-Rocket only Tempests, SpitIXc's from an artificial island. Plus B25s with P38(fighter only) escorts from an airstart further back.
Blues-Bf109G6/AS, FW190A6's forward fighter base. Plus Bf109G6Late airstarted further back for higher level cover...
Blues would defend only and win by aircraft destroyed.

2.Late 44(Using Kurland Autumn Online) A lot closer to a reworking of the Ardennes planeset.Reds-Tempests (unrestricted), Spit IXe's, P51Ds, P47D's,P38L_Late's.
Blues-Fw-190A-9,Fw-190D-9,Fw-190F-8,Bf-109G-6AS,Bf-109K-4,Do-335.
Both sides with ground targets as usual.

Paulie
18-05-2007, 08:57
*sigh*

52 million versions of the 109 and Spitfire and they didn't model the Typhoon. :(

MajorDamage
18-05-2007, 10:22
Both good ideas Firelok. If you're going to do the Late44 V1 thing, why not try the Kurland winter map? I don't think we've got one of those on UK2 have we? It's a pretty striking winter map - the trees are green!

Firelok
18-05-2007, 14:03
Both good ideas Firelok. If you're going to do the Late44 V1 thing, why not try the Kurland winter map? I don't think we've got one of those on UK2 have we? It's a pretty striking winter map - the trees are green!

Yep could use Kurland Winter Online, I've done a run of winter maps, (Aleutians,Rhineland,Mga,Kessel) recently though and wanted to do a non-snowy one TBO plus Bulge is snowy and is late-44 Tempesty map too.

Firelok
20-05-2007, 14:02
Red plane set is Spitfire Vb L.F, Spitfire IX c and Tempest V restricted to rocket loadout and maybe Mosquito. Blues have Bf 109 G6 or G2 and Fw 190 A5/6. The map would be a short map of around 60 mins and it would be a hectic scramble around one or two grid spaces.

Alternatively the mission could be set in the Bay of Biscay, using similar map layout to Major Damages map. There were several missions where Spitfires escorted Typhoons out there to attack Merchant shipping. This map could feature a cove rammed with merchant ships covered by multiple flak vessels and shore based light flak - a similar planeset, similar map time, similar idea just a change of target and scenery.

Please see the following thread...
http://www.battle-fields.com/commscentre/showthread.php?t=14151