PDA

View Full Version : Operation Torch



stanford
11-08-2007, 19:32
The map is finished now, just polishing the briefs then sending for upload.

Red:
USN / USAAF

P-40E (Carrier+Land base*)
F4F-4 (Carrier)
SBD-3 (Carrier)

Blue:
France (Vichy)

Hawk 81 (For Hawk 75)
LaGG-3 series 4 (For D.520)

Luftwaffe

Bf110 (Airstart, no big bombs / gunpods)

*The Red land base is actually surrounded by Blue AAA units that the ground forces have not yet been able to clear. As such, landing or taking off from this base should only be done in extreme emergency. When the AAA has been destroyed by carrier-borne air attack this base will allow P-40E's to take off in a more conventional style.

http://www.petetuson.com/crap/Torch/9.jpg

Map view, the above unsecured airbase being in B5

http://www.petetuson.com/crap/Torch/1.jpg

AA sites around the unsecured airbase have been marked by an Orange flare by ground troops.

http://www.petetuson.com/crap/Torch/7.jpg

An AA site surrounding the unsecured base

http://www.petetuson.com/crap/Torch/2.jpg

Landing craft disembarking the troop ships. Both are targets, some have already made their way to the beach, others are on the way.

http://www.petetuson.com/crap/Torch/3.jpg

D.520 flies low over a Vehicle Repair and Resupply facility

http://www.petetuson.com/crap/Torch/4.jpg

A Vichy Oil Refinery hidden deep in the hilly desert, certainly a target of importance for the Allies.

http://www.petetuson.com/crap/Torch/5.jpg

A large convoy of troops and tanks, lightly defended, heads swiftly towards the landing site. A high priority target.

http://www.petetuson.com/crap/Torch/6.jpg

US Howitzers have dug in on an island, laying down offensive artillery support.

http://www.petetuson.com/crap/Torch/8.jpg

A Vichy airfield glows deep in the desert. Lighting has been installed on most desert fields to try and assist navigation and take off procedure. A wise move on the part of the French?

Firelok
11-08-2007, 19:36
Cool, it's great to see someone new taking the mapping plunge.

Zorin
11-08-2007, 19:55
Very nice indeed. Good job stanford :)

But you know me, I can't post without questions/suggestions:

1. Shouldn't the Bf110 be coming from the north?
2. The way you positioned the red airfields/carriers and targets it is going to end up in tears. Noone will fly four grids in a Ju87 to be slaughtered before even having the chance to drop a bomb on a ship. Leave alone anyone spending time to attack the landing crafts.
3. Target distances: Reds: twice three grids and once one grid. But blues: Once two grids and twice 4/5 grids. Not really fair if you ask me.

Nothing dramatic really. Simply shift the landing two grids east and leave the rest as it is and it should be fine, IMO. :)

stanford
11-08-2007, 20:22
Cheers Zorin, that's exactly the sort of feedback I need. So you think shifting the carriers & LC's to the right, towards the middle of the map would solve the issues? I did want the 110's coming from the North, but I figured it'd be pretty dull to just fly over the sea. No worries, I'll fix that too.

I've done some flying around with the fighters offline and it's a really interesting match up. The LaGG is undoubtedly superior here, but that's exactly how it was in Torch. It's not an outrageous difference in performance. If it gets too bad I can always put a limit on it.

Also, there's no Ju87 on the map.

Zorin
11-08-2007, 21:09
I just thought, cause there is one listed in your ini file you posted ;)

stanford
11-08-2007, 21:11
That was Firelok's draft I believe. But many thanks for the tips, I really want this to work so I sincerely appreciate brutally honest criticism.

Firelok
11-08-2007, 22:53
I just thought, cause there is one listed in your ini file you posted ;)

Actually I nicked it from Vadso and tweaked it to look more like what Stanford was aiming at. Vadso has F4Fs LaGGs, P40s Bf110s(with all the gunpod limitations) and Ju87s.

stanford
11-08-2007, 23:07
Ah but it doesn't have naked women dancing on cargo ships does it? :D

I've updated the top map picture to reflect Zorin's suggestions. We have the 110's coming from the top right air start and the landing has been moved more central. I removed one target area for the ships and guesstimated that it would be about 5000m radius, so just put that in the ini.

FlyingFinn
11-08-2007, 23:16
Very creative! :)

Isn't the Hawk 81 the same as P-40B/C?

Algorex
11-08-2007, 23:25
Very creative! :)

Isn't the Hawk 81 the same as P-40B/C?

Different gunsight that's all really, the Hawk 81 we have in the game is actually french spec plane which was transfered to the AVG after the fall of france.

Firelok
11-08-2007, 23:30
I've updated the top map picture to reflect Zorin's suggestions. We have the 110's coming from the top right air start and the landing has been moved more central. I removed one target area for the ships and guesstimated that it would be about 5000m radius, so just put that in the ini.

Shifting the Bf110s a little closer to the action may be something you want to consider, say level with the blue air base (err.. Row G on the map.) It's a big old flighttime otherwise.

Algorex
11-08-2007, 23:36
Shifting the Bf110s a little closer to the action may be something you want to consider, say level with the blue air base (err.. Row G on the map.) It's a big old flighttime otherwise.

With an airstart it shouldn't be such a big thing as you get an energy advantage compared to the land based stuff and we don't want to make the airstarted bf-110 too desirable ;) Compromise H7num1?

irish
12-08-2007, 02:06
With an airstart it shouldn't be such a big thing as you get an energy advantage compared to the land based stuff and we don't want to make the airstarted bf-110 too desirable ;) Compromise H7num1?

Good point.

Stan: did you get my email re: the frontlines and flak around the Red base?

stanford
12-08-2007, 11:05
Yes mate, thanks I've dealt with that. I've held off on the lighting on the emergency strip though. Sending this to Firelok in about 10 mins so we can hopfully see how rubbish it is tonight.

Yellow 2
12-08-2007, 13:17
Thanks Stanford I'm looking forward to this map, the plane set should be interesting and it's certainly unique. :)

Firelok
12-08-2007, 15:38
I have Uploaded this Torch.mis

It's always a great pleasure to see someone new (to mapmaking) adding content for us all to play, thanks for the effort Stanford.

When this gets tested you will experience the 'new map buzz' enjoy it.

stanford
12-08-2007, 16:17
Thanks to everyone for their help in answering all my questions. I hope it all works out ok, if not, I'll make an uber-jet vs. p.11c map of some kind. I'll think of a scenario. Currently I'm going along the lines of John Rambo or Chuck Norris...

stanford
12-08-2007, 18:40
Slight mess up... just loaded it for the first time, instantly saw people trying to take Go-229's off of a carrier! Would it be quicker for me to fix it and resend it, or someone with FTP access to just alter it for me?

EDIT:

It's all altered and I've uploaded the files to my site. PM me if you can help!

FlyingFinn
12-08-2007, 19:07
We almost had that Lerche in our French LaGG-3s - almost! :D

Boemher
12-08-2007, 19:27
This has great potential Stan, once I shook that Spitfire 25lber of my 6 ;) I had a very intense dogfight with 3 P40 Es or was that 4 ..... grrr.... while Finn and Algore pretended that they were on their way to help. Once that carrier's plane choice is restricted it will be pretty much sorted plane set wise for balance.

Maps with similar performance planes make for great dogfights

irish
12-08-2007, 22:50
Forgot to mention something, Stan.

You have to set the AC you want to use in the properties section of the "Home Base", otherwise it will allow you to spawn from the complete listing of planes in IL2 :p

So, lemmie guess, Torch went Sci Fi:wall: :D

stanford
14-08-2007, 15:00
If no one objects I'm going to give this one a slog tonight on UK2 between 8-9pm GMT. If anyone wants to join in, the more the merrier! It's a choice between IL2 and watching Spurs on TV... not the toughest call I've ever had to make :P

Firelok
14-08-2007, 15:03
Nothing would give me greater pleasure than seeing a resurgent Spurs capable of pasting Arsenal and Chelsea but it aint gonna happen soon.

So lets see about Torch then instead:) .

Boemher
14-08-2007, 15:20
Spurs are silly - spending 17mil on Bent when you already have 3 strikers better than him one of whom(Defoe) is already fed up of bench warming :p

irish
14-08-2007, 17:26
If no one objects I'm going to give this one a slog tonight on UK2 between 8-9pm GMT. If anyone wants to join in, the more the merrier! It's a choice between IL2 and watching Spurs on TV... not the toughest call I've ever had to make :P


Nothing would give me greater pleasure than seeing a resurgent Spurs capable of pasting Arsenal and Chelsea but it aint gonna happen soon.

So lets see about Torch then instead:) .


Spurs are silly - spending 17mil on Bent when you already have 3 strikers better than him one of whom(Defoe) is already fed up of bench warming :p


I'll guess you guys are talking soccer/rugby???


Pre-emptive strike: No, I won't call it football :p ;)

stanford
14-08-2007, 21:22
Right, same problem persists. The two rear carriers can still spawn every plane. I went to FMB and removed every plane from both carriers - they're supposed to be landing only - save it and load it up. Changes will not take effect, no matter how many times i remove the planes in FMB. I must be doing something wrong. Could you take a look at it for me Firelok, it's doing my nut in!

Zorin
14-08-2007, 21:31
Right, same problem persists. The two rear carriers can still spawn every plane. I went to FMB and removed every plane from both carriers - they're supposed to be landing only - save it and load it up. Changes will not take effect, no matter how many times i remove the planes in FMB. I must be doing something wrong. Could you take a look at it for me Firelok, it's doing my nut in!

You don't set a homebase for the landing carriers. It is sufficient to have them inside the homebase radius of any of the regular carriers.

stanford
14-08-2007, 21:50
Ah right! Well I'll fix that my end, but it's probably going to be quicker for Firelok or some other kind bod to do it for me on the server version.

Firelok
15-08-2007, 23:54
Carriers fixed and SC targetting problems sorted.

Firelok
16-08-2007, 08:06
Been thinking about this overnight, the Speed advantage of the P40E isn't enough to offset the better turning Hawk82. I'm not that sure at all if 6x.50cals is a benefit over the Hawk82s mostly .30cal armament either.
Might want to consider the P40M as an option from one carrier.
I think the F4F3 would be good too. It turns better than an F4F4 and although it has less guns it has more ammo for those guns.

stanford
16-08-2007, 11:19
I've been thinking the P40M might be the way to go for a while. I almost put it in Beta 244 of the maps creation process.

I think against the LaGG, more guns is going to be more important than more ammo, else you'll never get it down.

I'm still girlfriended, so if you can stick this map on even if I'm not there just so for once it can be properly tested on a full server without something going wrong, let me know how it goes!

FlyingFinn
16-08-2007, 11:32
The .303 armament eats the P-40Es alive due to the superior incendiary effect.

The .50 cals can't light a thing, not a thing I say.

irish
16-08-2007, 13:20
P40E or M doesn't make a difference to me. Both would have been in service for Torch even if the "M" model was mostly for export (we can call in the "N"-the one more widely flown by the USAAF)

Please keep the F4F-4, though. Red is going to need the extra Fire Power against the LaGG's. The F4F-4 out turns the P40B (Hawk81) at slow speeds. Also keep in mind that the Wildcats do not allow manual combat flaps to be deployed....it's an automatic system. If you want to deploy them as turn flaps manually, you have to be going slow to begin with or the immediately un-deploy or jam. Plus, I believe all F4F-3's were pulled from combat 2-3 months prior to Torch.

Firelok
20-08-2007, 01:48
Tried this again last night, was good fun. I got a request for some sort of runway indicator at the Red Ground Base.Maybe a little smoke plume or two airfield campfires? I got the code wrong for the P40M bombload so they could take 1000lb bombs but considering the sheer distance you have to fly to get to the water treatment place it didn't seem that bad.This is quite a harsh target I think, Algore had his wing blown off and I took a hit in the engine that later finished me from the Flak over there, I destroyed 1 car :D I haven't had chance to fly blue yet:(

stanford
20-08-2007, 09:43
I was thinking of just removing that plant completely to try and focus the action a little tighter. Need be I can beef up the targets.

Happy
20-08-2007, 09:52
looks nice.. like the factory

btw is there a skinpack available for those lovely french fighters

MajorDamage
20-08-2007, 11:33
Played this briefly for the first time last night and thought it was ace. Good job Mr Stan. :)

Happy that French skin is here (http://www.mission4today.com/index.php?name=Downloads&c=247&page=2).

stanford
20-08-2007, 12:10
Cheers Major. If anyone has an specific feedback regarding action grids / targets, I'd be happy to amend. How did the targets last? How even was the plane set? Was the Blue factory a bit too far from the action? AA levels ok?

I've got some time this week, so I'll be happy to make any alterations that improve flow and gameplay.

Firelok
20-08-2007, 12:53
I don't think it needs changing, it works well enough for a place in the cycle as it is.

Novotny
20-08-2007, 13:36
I played it yesterday and was really liking the hawk, first itme I'd flown it. Found its armament very effective. Map's beautiful of course. Couldn't really comment on the plane sets beyond that.

MajorDamage
10-10-2007, 19:25
Just played this on the blue team and found it pretty hard. It was a constant battle trying to keep the teams even. The Hawk 81 just doesn't cut it against the P40M - P40M just has a way better ROC and seems to hold its energy better. Of course it might just be that I'm rubbish.... :o

Has anyone else found this a little unbalanced or was it just one of those nights? I haven't played much in a while so it's hard for me to judge it.

FlyingFinn
10-10-2007, 19:38
Hawk 81 doesn't stand a chance against P-40Es?

Hahahahahahahaha *gasp*

That thing eats P-40s alive with the super-incendiary .30s and the super-controlscable-instakilla-0.50cals.

1st time I flew that map I outturned wildcats with ease turned around the P-40s like they were standing still... well not quite but you know what I mean :D

MajorDamage
10-10-2007, 19:57
Oh ok, just me being rubbish then :D I think the problem was just consistently uneven teams. Last time I played this map I played red and found it pretty easy though...

Zorin
15-03-2008, 23:24
Oh ok, just me being rubbish then :D I think the problem was just consistently uneven teams. Last time I played this map I played red and found it pretty easy though...

Just played this as the first map for weeks and it is constantly uneven without lots of arguing. On Red side the P-40M is such a superb plane that Blues have to struggle quite a bit while oneself can enjoy a smooth ride. I know that cause I have flown Red the last time and Blue tonight.

I know that the P-40M is the best choice to represent a P40F so should we give Blue another plane as an additional choice?

Sonko
15-03-2008, 23:32
The Bf110 is the best plane on the map, as it is the fastest and most heavily armed plane available, it even has a reargunner, a quite free gunsight and can turn with the p40's for quite a while. even the F4F is better than the P40 as it turns much better than any of the hawk series and can take a greater punch than the p40 IMO.

you can compare the 110 a bit with the 190 - alone it is hard, but in a group of at least two life is really easy

so in my opinion there is no need for changes. only change might be to reduce the flight distance to the target in F something, as your sbd's flightpass crosses the of the 110's and french planes.

Zorin
15-03-2008, 23:39
The Bf110 is the best plane on the map, as it is the fastest and most heavily armed plane available, it even has a reargunner, a quite free gunsight and can turn with the p40's for quite a while. even the F4F is better than the P40 as it turns much better than any of the hawk series and can take a greater punch than the p40 IMO.

I agree that it is the best plane in terms of speed in straight flight and armament, but it doesn't turn with the P-40M. Even with flaps, throttle adjustment and trim it looses speed fast and after half a circle is caught by the P40. Tested it today after I got frustrated with the LaGG. The only thing that helps you is the rear gunner. But I was set a blaze already when my gunner only got the Allision smoking (light grey).

System-M-
08-01-2009, 19:16
noticed today. All targets were destroyed in the D6 grid (checked with the F7 monkey) Yet SC still read 2 left. All targets were destroyred properly (no crashes)

$h4rp
08-01-2009, 20:31
... The rear gunner shoots automatically??? wow....

Sonko
10-01-2009, 19:00
I don't have time to change something before the 19th, you must be patient unless somebody else can do the job.