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Firelok
13-04-2008, 18:02
Mission:Negev
Overview: The 1948 Arab-Israeli War was fought between the newly formed State of Israel and its Arab neighbours. Both sides used a wide variety of WW2 equipment leading to the unusual situation of aircraft of the same type flying against each other.
Israeli Spit IX
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e150/firelokc/Negev1.jpg
Egyptian Spit IX
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e150/firelokc/Negev2.jpg

Planeset
Arab/Egyptian
Texan T6
SpitfireMkIXe
SpitfireMkIXeCLP
SeaFury=12
MC-205_III
Israeli
BeaufighterMk21
P-51D-5NT=12
SpitfireMkIXe
SpitfireMkIXeCLP
Avia S-199

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e150/firelokc/Egypttanks.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e150/firelokc/Israelifort-1.jpg
Both sides have One Hard target and one Soft.

There's lots of Great skins out there for this scenario. some links for those that have been found would be good here.

I Decided to leave out the B17s the Israeli's had and the Dakotas both sides used. The essence of this is that it's a Spit v Spit map but has some great BnZ aircraft too. Tempest and P51D match is interesting too.


Here's a link to the wikipedia about this conflict.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab-Israeli_War

MajorDamage
13-04-2008, 19:22
I've gathered together all the relevant skins that I've collected from various sources. It's a simple copy/paste installation and there are some real beauties in here, so I'd encourage everyone to download these - they'll really help make this map work.

Arab Israeli War skins (http://www.mediafire.com/?slzbrmxtngf)

Sonko
13-04-2008, 21:05
Lets test it!

Luxchamp
13-04-2008, 21:45
this looks promising! :)

Incisor
13-04-2008, 22:05
Thanks Fire and MD, looking forward to this one :)

Algorex
13-04-2008, 22:34
BTW does anyone know whether the S-199s had hardpoints for bombs, i read that israelis used them for ground attack missions but whether that was just strafing or not is some what interesting as we could replace the G-10 with G-14 that has bombs as an option.

Lazarus
13-04-2008, 23:04
Thanks Fire and MD, looking forward to this one :)

Me too. Looks great.

Luxchamp
13-04-2008, 23:50
BTW does anyone know whether the S-199s had hardpoints for bombs, i read that israelis used them for ground attack missions but whether that was just strafing or not is some what interesting as we could replace the G-10 with G-14 that has bombs as an option.

wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avia_S-199


Armament

* Guns:
o 2× MG 131 machine guns
o 2× MG 151/20 cannons
* Bombs:
o 1× 250 kg (550 lb) or
o 4× 70 kg (155 lb) bombs


and a pic:


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/65/Avia-S199-hatzerim-2.jpg

Nightshifter
14-04-2008, 00:51
This map will be on UKD3 as well yeah?

Either way, very much looking forward to trying it out, Spitfires v Spitfires in an actual historical setting just sounds awesome IMO.

Zorin
14-04-2008, 01:11
Looking forward to this one, but you should substitute the G-10/14 with the G6late. That is the closest compromise in terms of looks and performance.

The Avia was pretty much a dog with the Jumo engine.

Firelok
14-04-2008, 09:12
Looking forward to this one, but you should substitute the G-10/14 with the G6late. That is the closest compromise in terms of looks and performance.

The Avia was pretty much a dog with the Jumo engine.

thought this myself, yet the skins produced are for the G10 and the Fighters over Israel missions use the G10. Always be changed later.

Shifter...
Didn't plan this for UK3 it's quite small and to be honest it's UK2 that needs the T.L.C. at the moment.

Whirlinmerlin
14-04-2008, 11:02
This could be facinating, looking forward.

MajorDamage
14-04-2008, 14:22
I've found skins for both Egyptian and Syrian Harvards made by 242sqn_Cat. The 242 sqn guys did an SEOW campaign based on this war; the forum is here. (http://www.242sqn.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=20) I've posted there to ask if they mind me uploading some of their skins.

Interestingly they've chosen the 109G6 late for the Mezek. The G10 skin seems to work fine when applied to a G6 Late so maybe this is worth considering.

I also noticed they've done a really cool Egyptian Stirling skin for the Pe8. I know it would totally unbalance the map to add it here, (along with the B17G for the Israelis), so I'm not suggesting we have one, but it did make me raise an eyebrow. :D

EDIT: Got the go ahead from 242Sqn_Cat. I've updated the skin pack. I've also copied the S-199 Mezek skins from the G10 folder to the G6Late folder so they'll work with either.

Firelok
14-04-2008, 17:00
This is all ready to go with a 109G6_Late but I'm having no joy at all uploading to UK2 with my FtP client, so we'll have to be a bit patient.sorry.:o

Algorex
14-04-2008, 21:24
As promise on TS,

HERE IS THE LINK (http://koti.mbnet.fi/algore/Il-2/Arab%20Israeli%201948%20Skins.zip) for the skinpack, it's valid until the 28th of this month.

Firelok
14-04-2008, 22:15
THx Chata for providing FtP stopgap solution.

Everything went OK for the test, but targets weren't extensive enough.

Fixed the 109G6 problem and the targets for an updated version.

mission is called Negev.mis for anyone who wants to test it.

MajorDamage
15-04-2008, 11:04
As promise on TS,

HERE IS THE LINK (http://koti.mbnet.fi/algore/Il-2/Arab%20Israeli%201948%20Skins.zip) for the skinpack, it's valid until the 28th of this month.

Is there a problem with the download link I posted?

Firelok
15-04-2008, 11:23
Is there a problem with the download link I posted?

Some found it to be quite slow, 11kb a sec someone had, so Algore has sorted us out a mirror (I'm getting over 400kb a sec ).

I intend to test this again between 8pm and 9pm BST tonight, best be there if you want to try it out people.

In terms of balancing the objectives this has proved a little tricky, trying to keep to ground equipment used makes for less armoured targets. Which when both sides have A/C capable of 2x1000lbs bombloads means the map is quickly over. I've added more tanks to both sides and upped the AA levels over the targets too.

MajorDamage
15-04-2008, 11:42
In terms of balancing the objectives this has proved a little tricky, trying to keep to ground equipment used makes for less armoured targets. Which when both sides have A/C capable of 2x1000lbs bombloads means the map is quickly over. I've added more tanks to both sides and upped the AA levels over the targets too.

I thought this might be a problem - historically there was very little armour. Adding more tanks is the only solution really, unless you want to carpet the whole map with soft targets.

Firelok
15-04-2008, 11:45
I thought this might be a problem - historically there was very little armour. Adding more tanks is the only solution really, unless you want to carpet the whole map with soft targets.

Yep lots more Shermans and T34/85s now.

sideburn
30-04-2008, 15:27
It took me quite some time to get here. Anyway, all I wanted to say is that there is an article about the use of the Avia 199 in that war in the German weekly newspaper "Die Zeit" this week. I did not know that Ezer Weizmann, later president of Israel, was one of the few pilots.
And by the way, while I am talking about the Negev map: I excuse again to the pilot of that spitfire I tried to shoot with my beaufighter some time ago. I am to much used to consider the spit as a target. Thanks to my bad marksmanship, I only frightened him.

MajorDamage
30-04-2008, 15:39
Welcome to the forums Sideburn :) .

Good job you bumped this thread because I was meaning to ask Firelok anyway:- where you at with this map? I remember last time we tested it there was some issue with the target count that you were going to look at. Did you get to fix it and if so is it ready to be loaded up for testing again? No pressure if you're too busy or anything, I was just wondering.

Zorin
30-04-2008, 15:42
It took me quite some time to get here. Anyway, all I wanted to say is that there is an article about the use of the Avia 199 in that war in the German weekly newspaper "Die Zeit" this week. I did not know that Ezer Weizmann, later president of Israel, was one of the few pilots.
And by the way, while I am talking about the Negev map: I excuse again to the pilot of that spitfire I tried to shoot with my beaufighter some time ago. I am to much used to consider the spit as a target. Thanks to my bad marksmanship, I only frightened him.

Just read that article, even got a subscription of "Die Zeit" ;)

Pretty good article I'd say, plus, the profile art is very good and I'm sure i have seen it somewhere before.

sideburn
30-04-2008, 15:53
It reminds me of the profiles that were used in the magazine "aircraft" in germany quite some years ago. Don´t know the artist though. In addition,I did not find the article published in the internet yet.
To zorin: Btw, Auf eine Zigarette mit Helmut Schmidt rules quiet a lot.

Chatanooga
30-04-2008, 16:06
Good job you bumped this thread because I was meaning to ask Firelok anyway:- where you at with this map? I remember last time we tested it there was some issue with the target count that you were going to look at. Did you get to fix it and if so is it ready to be loaded up for testing again? No pressure if you're too busy or anything, I was just wondering.
Edit/Delete Message


and



Yep lots more Shermans and T34/85s now.

I would assume this is ready for a test run again.

MajorDamage
30-04-2008, 16:14
Chata - I'm pretty sure we tested it after that amendment and there was still a problem with the target count.

Zorin
30-04-2008, 16:15
It reminds me of the profiles that were used in the magazine "aircraft" in germany quite some years ago. Don´t know the artist though. In addition,I did not find the article published in the internet yet.
To zorin: Btw, Auf eine Zigarette mit Helmut Schmidt rules quiet a lot.

Something like that, could also be I saw him psot his works on one of the forums I frequent. Will have to check that.

Das ist immer das erste was ich lese ;) Gut, heute war der 109er Artikel natürlich vorher dran :D

sideburn
30-04-2008, 16:57
The image is here: http://flyingart.twoday.net/ , just scroll down a little.
Can´t read the signature of the artist. But it is striking that there are the 20mm pods fixed to the wing.
Since they used a Jumo engine, I am not quite sure if they had the possibility to use a engine mounted gun, so they had to use the pods to get something similar to reasonable armamament. If they used the pods all the time, there is no wonder why the czechs called it mezek.

Zorin
30-04-2008, 17:06
The image is here: http://flyingart.twoday.net/ , just scroll down a little.
Can´t read the signature of the artist. But it is striking that there are the 20mm pods fixed to the wing.
Since they used a Jumo engine, I am not quite sure if they had the possibility to use a engine mounted gun, so they had to use the pods to get something similar to reasonable armamament. If they used the pods all the time, there is no wonder why the czechs called it mezek.

http://messerschmitt-bf109.de/

Overview -> The Bf 109 built in Czechoslovakia

Firelok
01-05-2008, 10:00
Chata - I'm pretty sure we tested it after that amendment and there was still a problem with the target count.

New version since then.

MajorDamage
01-05-2008, 10:04
Cool, I'll load it up for testing sometime soon.

Fergi
04-08-2009, 16:12
Israeli could have some Mossies here. They also used B-17s.

Arabian used Hurris, Dakotas, Texans (maybe Zero as replacement) and Avro Ansons, which are not included in this map.

MajorDamage
05-08-2009, 11:59
They didn't really have any serviceable mosquitos at the time. I think there was a single plane that flew photo recconnaisance. Mossies in IAF service don't appear properly till Suez in 56.

B-17's were left out for obvious reasons. They would completely unbalance the map, plus they only had 2 or 3 IIRC. We did think of adding them, and Pe-8s as Stirlings for the Egyptians, (read the earlier posts) but without a lot of armoured targets the map would be over very quickly.

The EAF had 4 hurricanes, so not really worth including especially as nobody will fly them when there are Tempests and Spit IXs available. Same applies to Ansons, C-47s etc, they're just not really very useful.

Texans are represented by SBDs.

Fergi
05-08-2009, 12:05
Thank you m8 :).

skylighter
02-11-2009, 17:35
does this mission is being used now?
i live in israel and i except flying in it..

so does it active or its still on testing?

thanks.

Sonko
02-11-2009, 17:48
Hi there, it is not in the cycle yet, I'll have to search for the mission files. *adds note to todo list*

skylighter
02-11-2009, 17:51
ok thank's.looking forward ;-)

Firelok
12-04-2011, 17:15
Thought I might resurrect this been tinkering adding mobile units and AI flights. pretty unique Spit vs Spit match up. Can be made more accurate later with the next U.P. update.

Fusek
12-04-2011, 17:20
To make it all more interesting, you could add RAF Spitfires as AI :D

Hoodoodat
01-07-2011, 11:44
Can't join blue

Firelok
01-07-2011, 16:54
fixed

Firelok
02-07-2011, 07:00
Correct Markings added for Israel (Blue) and Syria, Egypt (Red)

Hoodoodat
02-07-2011, 07:23
just a PS: as these corrections are made, maybe we should adjust the brief if necessary, as well as make sure the actual mission name is in the brief.:)

Firelok
02-07-2011, 09:56
just a PS: as these corrections are made, maybe we should adjust the brief if necessary, as well as make sure the actual mission name is in the brief.

Call it up and check Bud ;)

Fusek
02-07-2011, 13:09
Did you upgrade the planeset? We have the Harvard/Texan now, as well as the S-199 :)

Another idea I had is to add a couple of AI flights of RAF Spitfire Mk22. First a flight as red, then a while later a flight blue, but all ith proper RAF markings to simulate the dogfights the RAF units in the area had with both the Egyptian and Israeli spits. Spitfire Threesome!

other planes that could be added are the SeaFury for the Iraqi's (they got 6) and the G.55 to Syria (they got 12 I believe)

Firelok
02-07-2011, 14:22
Fly it and find out Fusek ;)

Fusek
02-07-2011, 16:46
Cant find my bloody disk mate! Thats the fourth that has been destroyed/lost in two years. I suspect I have a black hole somewhere in my house....