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Sonko
01-05-2009, 22:49
Hi guys, I feel like its time for a new Pe-8 map (no replacement for Anapa)

This nice aircraft which could carry the Russian 5000kg bomb:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f8/Pe-8.jpg


How about an early attack on Berlin or Königsberg, '41 or '42 ?

The Luftwaffe will have to defend their targets aswell as attack something further east on the map (not very realistic, but whatever)

NS-IceFire
01-05-2009, 23:09
To make it fun it would have to be similar to Anapa where there is a large target to hit and midwar or latewar aircraft to be capable of intercepting the well defended Pe-8s. If its early war think about what would happen if a 109E were to engage a Pe-8. A few really good pilots might be able to do it...the rest would die quickly.

[DH]Chris89
01-05-2009, 23:14
I'd love a new PE-8 map.

But as ice said would be better for mid to later war, as i neither can see 109e/4s getting anyware near it.

Sonko
01-05-2009, 23:15
Yes I was thinking about that too .. and Königsberg is an impossible target, as we have no maps featuring it :D

Helsinki or Riga might be a target too, its just a problem that the maps are rather heavy.

The FW190 needs to be on the map too, 109s get eaten up too quickly.

Kang
02-05-2009, 20:31
So in case it's not meant as replacement I have to ask: how exactly is it supposed to differ from Anapa?

Honorguy
02-05-2009, 20:58
I would go for something like Berlin the Map Anapa doesnt really have a target its just destroying 120 planes and the PE-8 is a Great bomber!! if we could have a target to bomb to pieces it would be great!

Zorin
03-05-2009, 00:28
We could put it on a Stalingrad winter map. They operated during December from bases north of Stalingrad.

NS-IceFire
03-05-2009, 00:52
We could put it on a Stalingrad winter map. They operated during December from bases north of Stalingrad.

Thats not a bad idea. There's a fair number of bits of that map that aren't currently explored by maps already on the server...

Zorin
03-05-2009, 00:58
Thats not a bad idea. There's a fair number of bits of that map that aren't currently explored by maps already on the server...

Exactly. Plus, we would have Fw190A-4s available to attack the Pe-8 in a winter 1942 scenario. Yak-9 and La-5 would even out the planeset to get a balanced overall picture.

Sonko
03-05-2009, 08:15
Stalingrad, nice idea too and maybe its better to get along with than the Berlin idea.
I'll look up some more info about the missions from teh web.

NS-IceFire
03-05-2009, 15:22
Sounds like a good balance!

Sonko, let me know if you need some additional planeset suggestions. I'm currently starting some research on a Yak single player campaign around Stalingrad and I'm learning quite a bit.

Sonko
03-05-2009, 17:58
Sure sure, always share your info! Better have too much than too little information. :)

NS-IceFire
05-05-2009, 05:28
Historically speaking Stalingrad was quite a mix of aircraft. Large numbers of Yak-1s still around at the beginning of the battle...a few Yak-1Bs and Yak-9s were into it by December. Mostly a Yak-7B show with LaGG-3 Series 35s and the first deployments of La-5s on the front also factoring in there.

Also a mix of Il-2s with and without rear gunners.

For the Germans the primary fighter was the 109 with the F-4 being somewhat exhausted by the winter but with a fair number of G-2s available. Lots of Stukas and Heinkels used during this time as well. The biggest Luftwaffe air operations were actually Ju-52s and FW200s trying to resupply the cutoff German armies in and around Stalingrad (which itself had been reduced to rubble)....a massive but ultimately doomed effort.

Although I don't know of any FW190s on this front...they did start arriving to the Eastern Front in other sectors in December 1942 so it wouldn't be much to squeak an A-4 in there to combat the Pe-8. Only way to really fight it actually. So A-4 as an interceptor, G-2 to pick up the fighters, and Stukas and Heinkels for strikes.

That would be versus some sort of mix of the available Russian types. The Yak-7 is actually quite capable and missing from allot of scenarios. The Yak-1 you can probably avoid as its totally obsolecent and only I would dare even try and take it against a G-2. The Yak-1B on the other hand is an excellent performer in its year at low level. Small numbers of Yak-9s and Yak-7Bs with cutdown fuselage (almost indistinguishable from a Yak-9) also available. The La-5 was first deployed here and the LaGG-3 was around as well. Mix in the Pe-8 and perhaps some IL-2s or Pe-2s if you needed to...

Depends on the scenario ultimately...but those are the types to play with.

hyenaman
05-05-2009, 05:45
One question about the Pe-8's "mega bomb"...
on our current Pe-8 map....you drop a FAB 5000 right next(im talking like 5 feet away) to a bunch of static planes and they remain completely undamaged....
leaves a massive crater next to them....but the bomb seems to only destroy super soft targets like cars.Ive seen 500 lbs do more damage.
whats the point of a 5000 if it wont do much harm??
I do realize that its a fuel airbomb....but shouldn't it do a little more than that???
or am i missing something completely.

Algorex
05-05-2009, 06:33
It's not a FuelAir Bomb, don't the appedix fool you. FAB stands for Fugasnaya aviatsionnaya bomba, which roughly translates to Aviation Demolition Bomb ie GP bomb.

The expolsion's failure to kill stuff is an old il-2 bug going all the way to the orginal 1999 il2 Sturmovik.

hyenaman
05-05-2009, 07:23
jeeeees so its all smoke and no fire...tch tch

NDS_Camp.
05-05-2009, 16:27
Bombing a City with loads of bombs or verry large bombs can cause problems with some computers and the server... so many objects that get destroyed at the same time.

And strangly it doesnt seem to do enough damadge anymore on aircraft on the ground like it used to do in the original IL2, where one bomb would blow up a whole airfield in one blast, buildings, aircraft, everything.

NS-IceFire
05-05-2009, 22:44
The thing with the FAB5000 is that because of lag and the insane amount of data being transmitted at the point of the blast...often things are not caught. Some objects are damaged and others are missed completely.

It still blows up big and takes out tons of targets...but the target areas are going to have to be carefully crafted.

MajorDamage
05-05-2009, 23:40
Who cares how many things it actually destroys? The important thing is it looks cool. Big Explosions FTW!

hyenaman
06-05-2009, 07:16
true....but the things is....
u survive waves of Fw's and 109's to get to the target and then...
phshewwww...nothing...:(
mighty disappointing if u ask me.

Fergi
07-05-2009, 16:19
What about Berlin, april 1945? We could place loads of targets in Berlin (including buildings) and also full Berlin's airports with objects and aircraft. Red should destroy f.e. 50% of it (strategic bombing). Blue can base in Gatow and red in Fuerstenwalde.

Algorex
07-05-2009, 16:22
And crash the server and couple of the clients computers in one go!

LBR=Barkhorn
12-05-2009, 16:15
My idea: night raid over Berlin, the Pe8 as the Lancaster, some Mossies to mark the targets and 110 / 210/ 410 (dunno what fits better) to Intercept the bombers. Attacking targets at night time would provide a good challenge for the bombers (except if the Mossies provide a good recon), as locating the bombers would be a bit hard fot the Zestorers.

Honorguy
12-05-2009, 16:24
hmmm night version actually why not???

Fergi
12-05-2009, 22:38
Great idea Bark!

That would mean an airstart for Red over enemy territory, doesn't it?

Zorin
12-05-2009, 23:22
We have been there before and it will be the typical server emptier.

1. Night time
2. Berlin map
3. very limited planeset


Besides, we don't have Mossies with flares or Nightfighters as part of the 4.08 dedi.

NS-IceFire
12-05-2009, 23:53
You could target Frankfurt and use the Pe-8...but we already have maps that cover that area fairly extensively. Berlin is a FPS slideshow on all but the best PC's and the number of objects being affected by such a fight will cause undue lag.

Stalingrad tactical battles are still better...fall of 1942 or early 1943 are where the Pe-8 was used to support the tactical battles.

Fergi
13-05-2009, 19:36
2. Berlin map.

Why not?

Night time is nice, too.

I think that Stalingrad map would be great, too.

Algorex
13-05-2009, 19:57
Berlin is a lagfest over the main city.

Night maps are mostly confusing, dull and lack all the historical gadgetry which would make it even somewhat interesting. Trying and tested, trust me.

Even poor weather in Aleutians made most people disconnect and a good map on a full server is better than an excellent map on an empty one.

Kang
13-05-2009, 19:57
Why not?
Because:

Berlin is a FPS slideshow on all but the best PC's and the number of objects being affected by such a fight will cause undue lag.

NS-IceFire
14-05-2009, 00:54
Worth mentioning....in the original IL-2 documentation only the dogfight maps and one or two others were recommended for online play. The rest were deemed too complex. Jump forward almost 10 years now and we have many maps that are more complex than the ones that shipped in the original IL-2...some of them are workable and others are not. Some of them its a matter of where on the map you go. The eastern part of the Berlin map is alright...but Berlin itself is not.

Stay away from the dense cities on large maps...open fields are best for online play.

Fergi
28-05-2009, 20:18
My new map, Tirpitz, is almost finished. It's nov 1944, Norway map, red targets are Luftwaffe facilities, small fleet (incl. Tirpitz of course) and small support harbour. Blues defend.

I'm not quite sure about the planeset, but I think that blue should have Fw-190A-8 and A-9, Bf-109G-6/AS, Bf-109G-14, Bf-110G-2. No MK108s.
Red... Pe-8 as Lancasters of course and maybe B-25 would get an airstart, and maybe Mosquitoes + Spits Mk.XIV on test runway or Seafires on carriers... Which fits the map better and is more historically accurate?

Tirpitz is also an ideal target for 5000kg bombs in my opinion.

NS-IceFire
29-05-2009, 04:59
Spitfire XIV? You mean IX?

The Tirpitz attacks historically consisted of Fleet Air Arm Corsairs, Hellcats, Wildcats, Seafires, Fireflies and Barracudas. For the Luftwaffe the defense was Bf109G-6s (maybe G-2s?) and FW190A-4 or A-5s. Some 110s too. The Tirpitz suffered repeated Royal Navy Fleet Air Arm attacks and survived. Ultimately it was sunk by a specialized version of the Lancaster...the bomb blast caused the battleship to capsize.

So we have some but not all of the Tirpitz combatants. We also already have a Tirpitz scenario that I put together although I wouldn't consider it a success. I encourage you to give it a try anyways...very tricky scenario.

Fergi
29-05-2009, 14:40
Is this right planeset then?:

RED:
F6F,
F4F-4,
Seafire - on carriers,

SBD-5 as Barracuda,
B-25,
Pe-8 as Lancaster - an airstart

BLUE:
Bf-109G-2,
Bf-109G-6,
Fw-190A-4,
Fw-190A-5,
Bf-110G-2,

MK108s only in Bf-109s. No Corsairs as they are too fast.

Honorguy
29-05-2009, 16:26
sound pretty fair but you are mixing russian and american planes on red....

Kang
29-05-2009, 16:44
What do you have in mind for blue objectives? If you make it a defence only one, I'd suggest to include one of the red fighters in the airstart to allow for reasonable escort. Preferrably the Wildcat, giving people a reason not to use the Seafire exclusively.

Zorin
29-05-2009, 17:13
JG 5 main types in Nov 1944 were Fw190A8 and Bf109G-14.

Fergi
29-05-2009, 19:20
Thanks for help and ideas guys, final conclusion is:

RED:
F6F,
Seafire - on carriers,

F4F-4,
SBD-5 as Barracuda,
B-25,
Pe-8 as Lancaster - an airstart

BLUE:
Bf-109G-6 late,
Bf-109G-14,
Fw-190A-6,
Fw-190A-8,
Bf-110G-2,

No MK108s, Fw-190 only default arming. If blues are too strong I'll add Corsairs limited.

Honorguy
29-05-2009, 21:24
PE-8 vs 109 = Pe-8 wins Pe-8 vs FW-190 = death PE-8 (most times)
B25 vs 109 = B25 wont make it back to base

Fergi
29-05-2009, 21:38
Remember that there are fighters for red, too.

NS-IceFire
30-05-2009, 01:14
If there is a FW190A-8 or A-6 then the Corsair II will be just fine. Infact it will be needed as the Hellcat, Seafire, and Wildcat are much to slow.

Other than that...I like the setup.