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FlyingFinn
24-05-2009, 18:38
AKA watered down Ploesti.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d59/GaZe9/TidalWave1.jpg

"Operation Tidal Wave was a 2,400-mile round trip strategic bombing mission from Libya to put 9 Romanian oil refineries "out of action" in 6 months. The mission is known as "Black Sunday" for the loss of 53 aircraft and 660 aircrew (one of the most costly by the United States Army Air Forces in the European Theatre of World War II), 5 Medals of Honor were awarded to Tidal Wave crewmembers."

Concept
I flew this really fun B-24 oil field raid mission on another server and really wanted to make one for UKD. That mission only had B-24s for RED and IAR.81Cs for BLUE.

Map details
RED has to bomb the oil industry that is covered by heavy flak.
BLUE has to defend the oil refineries from enemy bomber attacks.

Planeset is still open. I want to know what you want:

B-24s against IAR81C
B-24s against Bf-109G, Bf-110G, IAR81C
B-25, B-24, A-20 against Bf-109G, Bf-110G, IAR81C
Insert option here


Thoughts?

HotShot
24-05-2009, 18:49
I like the sound of that!

I do think that having only 1 type of aircraft for each team will probably empty the server.

I much prefere the latter of the possible plane-sets. Variety being the spice of life and all that jazz.

Nice work there fella.

Kang
24-05-2009, 18:59
Downside of having B-24 only would be that it's not flyable without mods. The Romanian fighters are pretty alright actually, but with 109s around they usually don't get used much.

Fergi
24-05-2009, 19:33
B-25, B-24, A-20 against Bf-109G, Bf-110G, IAR81C is sweet.

Mk108+MG151 Bf-110 loadout and Bf-109G-2 are a must :P.

FlyingFinn
24-05-2009, 20:06
I was hoping no MK108s as it would make flying blue way too easy.

If it boils down to performance we could only have Bf-109F-4, Bf-110C-4 and IAR.81C on the blue to keep it level.

Fergi
24-05-2009, 20:35
I was hoping no MK108s as it would make flying blue way too easy.

Ok, but MG151 is a must, B-24s are tough birds.


Bf-109F-4

I love F-4 but it's 1943 year... And it's highly durable.


Bf-110C-4

110 would be main antibomber weapon. As it has no cockpit, only players with mods could fly it successfully.

No fighters for reds makes it hard to counterweight the sides.

NS-IceFire
25-05-2009, 04:36
Problem with this scenario is that it will empy the server. I've been thinking about what is possible...the only way to keep people is to provide some escort fighters for the B-24s...which then means that nobody will fly the IAR-81C (or if they do it'll fall under their guns) which means that you need the 109s or 190s which means that the whole point of the scenario is essentially nullified.

Maybe its something that could be called up on request?

OR...another thought is Hungary 1944 with the USAAF bombing raids there...B-24s still but now with P-38, P-47, and/or P-51 fighter escort against Hungarian Bf109s, Me210s, or Bf110s.

Just thinking outloud.

Algorex
25-05-2009, 12:42
Dive bombing P-38s vs bf 109G and IAR 81c

Honorguy
25-05-2009, 15:26
B24's and B17's for allies? with some cover of desert spits just saying something :P

hyenaman
25-05-2009, 16:06
AKA watered down Ploesti.

B-25, B-24, A-20 against Bf-109G, Bf-110G, IAR81C



I think this plane set from Finn is pretty decent...
only no MK108's(most bombers wont reach target)
and maybe one fighter(p-51's or p-47's) for the reds for escort.
would be fun me thinks.
cant wait :mp5:

NS-IceFire
26-05-2009, 04:37
Better make it P-51...many cannot fight with the P-47 effectively.

P-51B maybe? Or C?

Oh_Frustration
26-05-2009, 05:43
many cannot fight with the P-47 effectively.

Do you mean the opponent or the Jug pilot? I usually see the opponent not able to fight with the Jug effectively.

Algorex
26-05-2009, 13:01
Airstart the B-24s, put some p-38s on a ground base with an option for fighter-bombing action and make two blue bases with bf 109G-6 (early) on both and IAR 81c and bf 110G to one each obviously with the 110 base futher away to make up for the nightfighter armament.

Find a small town with a large industrial area and build an oil refinary with multiple sections that need to be attacked separately. Closely packed targets within each group so the bombers don't have to circle around and hunt for the remaining cart in the middle of the rubble.

Razorback jug is an option but i'd very much liked to see how the p-38 fares out against the Lufties.

FlyingFinn
26-05-2009, 14:15
Airstart the B-24s, put some p-38s on a ground base with an option for fighter-bombing action and make two blue bases with bf 109G-6 (early) on both and IAR 81c and bf 110G to one each obviously with the 110 base futher away to make up for the nightfighter armament.
This seems the most viable option at the moment.

Find a small town with a large industrial area and build an oil refinary with multiple sections that need to be attacked separately. Closely packed targets within each group so the bombers don't have to circle around and hunt for the remaining cart in the middle of the rubble.
Done and done.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d59/GaZe9/tidal1.jpg

Fergi
26-05-2009, 14:29
Looks great!

Crazyclaws
26-05-2009, 14:39
Can I reserve a B24 please??

That looks great!!!

FlyingFinn
26-05-2009, 14:59
A few preview shots. Each industrial building contains one or more targets. A slight slowdown might be expected due to the massive amount of objects.

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/1797/tidalp1.th.jpg (http://img39.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tidalp1.jpg) http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/8954/tidalp5.th.jpg (http://img39.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tidalp5.jpg) http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/1468/tidalp2.th.jpg (http://img39.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tidalp2.jpg) http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/6044/tidalp4.th.jpg (http://img39.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tidalp4.jpg) http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/6713/tidalp3.th.jpg (http://img39.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tidalp3.jpg)

Happymeal
26-05-2009, 16:56
Nice, nice, nice, only mentioned this at the weekend after that Japanese B24 map.

Should be a fun map, especially if players stick to the spirit of the map and fly the red bombers at low level.

I suppose my only desire would be to abandon the airstart idea. Personally, I prefer the forming up on the runway and formation takeoffs that we try to do on UK2, there are also too many bomber airstarts on the other maps. Ploesti should be a low level map anyway, so no need for lots of timewasting/ climbing.

As for the planesets, my thoughts

Reds

B-24 and one twin engine bomber, A-20 or B-25.
One fighter, for the time period something like P-40 or Razorback P-47

Blues

a Bf-109G, a Bf-110, and all of the IAR's. Possibly limit the numbers of available 109 & 110's.

Ground starts for all.

However it ends up though, looking forward to trying it out. Good work.

FlyingFinn
26-05-2009, 18:56
Updated map.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d59/GaZe9/TidalWave2.jpg


Bf-109G-6
IAR.81C
P-38J

Take off normally


B-24
Bf-110G-2

Get an airstart

More opinions before submitting this?

Happymeal
26-05-2009, 21:23
Updated map.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d59/GaZe9/TidalWave2.jpg


Bf-109G-6
IAR.81C
P-38J

Take off normally


B-24
Bf-110G-2

Get an airstart

More opinions before submitting this?

Lose the airstarts, they're an immersion killer.

Zorin
26-05-2009, 22:21
Lose the airstarts, they're an immersion killer.

Immersion killer?

You are aware of the fact that the US bombers and fighters came from bases in North Africa respectively Italy?

It is a scenario that doesn't lent itself to a dogfight mission in the first place. Icefire is quite correct in predicting that this is going to be a server emptier. Not because it is badly executed, in fact Finn did a very job as far as I can tell, but the folks out there seldom behave the way we mission designs would like them to.

This will result in 110s camping the target and most likely even the bomber airstart with the only fight being P-38 vs Bf 109, which will most likely fall to the Luftwaffe as only few can fly the P-38 to its strength.

FlyingFinn
26-05-2009, 22:55
Limit on Bf-110 numbers could certainly redeem some parts of it?

I'm quite sure people will try to adapt at some levels to the fact that dogfighting will not be a very viable solution for the RED side. Perhaps adding a more familiar fighter to the allies now or later will help with the issues.

NS-IceFire
27-05-2009, 03:34
Do you mean the opponent or the Jug pilot? I usually see the opponent not able to fight with the Jug effectively.

I mean that many cannot fight with the Jug...by fighting with the Jug I mean flying it and using it effectively as a fighter.

Its a big heavy boom and zoomer with a great roll rate, an average turn rate that quickly drops below average as speed decreases, and despite its powerful engine its big and heavy and therefore takes a bit of time to accelerate again. An experienced pilot will make the 47 dance...a newbie will stall and crash and leave the server if there are no other fighters to fly. Its true unfortunately.

Happymeal
27-05-2009, 16:18
So how about giving the Reds a P40 to fight with, I think that might be easier than the 38.

Happymeal
27-05-2009, 16:30
Immersion killer?

You are aware of the fact that the US bombers and fighters came from bases in North Africa respectively Italy?



Yep, well aware. They also took off from those bases did they not? Not much against airstarts. I just think groundstarts enable easier organisation in the chatbar for large formations, look good in the movies ppl make, real pilots have to take off aswell as land, in this mission it might force ppl to stay at low altitudes etc etc.

As for the Bf110 being too uber, then leave it out and give the 109's gunpods.

Zorin
27-05-2009, 17:36
Yep, well aware. They also took off from those bases did they not? Not much against airstarts. I just think groundstarts enable easier organisation in the chatbar for large formations, look good in the movies ppl make, real pilots have to take off aswell as land, in this mission it might force ppl to stay at low altitudes etc etc.

As for the Bf110 being too uber, then leave it out and give the 109's gunpods.

They did of course, but what immersion is it to take off from an airfield in the Russian waste land if in fact it should be the vivid Italian countryside or the rough planes of the North African desert? :rolleyes:

Besides, it is absolutely irrelevant whatever type of fighter blues have, they will end up camping the airstart/base. Why? Because they have no other objective than killing a maximum of enemy planes.

Happymeal
27-05-2009, 17:53
They did of course, but what immersion is it to take off from an airfield in the Russian waste land if in fact it should be the vivid Italian countryside or the rough planes of the North African desert? :rolleyes:

Besides, it is absolutely irrelevant whatever type of fighter blues have, they will end up camping the airstart/base. Why? Because they have no other objective than killing a maximum of enemy planes.

I hear Russia can be quite vivid in the summer:) Besides did the bombers also not have to land back in the Libyan desert? You may get an airstart, but you still got to land in Russia:confused: You need one of the 4.09 maps to make this as realistic as possible.

Quite correct on the second point, not sure how you could stop it though apart from a shed load of AAA around the Red base and coordinated red escorts????

Zorin
27-05-2009, 17:57
I hear Russia can be quite vivid in the summer:) Besides did the bombers also not have to land back in the Libyan desert? You may get an airstart, but you still got to land in Russia:confused: You need one of the 4.09 maps to make this as realistic as possible.

Quite correct on the second point, not sure how you could stop it though apart from a shed load of AAA around the Red base and coordinated red escorts????

Coordinated escorts on a dogfight server? :eek:

You should stop believing that every time the map gets played there are organized people around who want to make a group effort. A map needs to work with the standard crowd anything beyond that is a bonus of seldom nature.

Happymeal
27-05-2009, 19:32
Coordinated escorts on a dogfight server? :eek:

You should stop believing that every time the map gets played there are organized people around who want to make a group effort. A map needs to work with the standard crowd anything beyond that is a bonus of seldom nature.

Actually now you mention it, It is a rare event.....which is a shame. Guess we just have to make the most of the hardcore crowd as and when.

As for the standard crowd :wall: Russian 109's, French Zero's:bum:, and my personal fave the RAF Ar234's :thwak:

Stuff it, I gonna divebomb the blue base in my B-24, that'll teach em:rolleyes:.

Fergi
27-05-2009, 20:28
Dowing B-24 with Bf-109 is a hard job, if you ask me... Especially if some Lightnings/Warhawks would bother you...

FlyingFinn
27-05-2009, 20:30
This project is freezed until I can pull the mission file out of my busted HD.

Honorguy
27-05-2009, 21:12
Coordinated escorts on a dogfight server?

You should stop believing that every time the map gets played there are organized people around who want to make a group effort. A map needs to work with the standard crowd anything beyond that is a bonus of seldom nature.


Well as matter infect uhm look how many times i am online :P if there is a lovely map i always try it

FlyingFinn
28-05-2009, 14:55
This project is freezed until I can pull the mission file out of my busted HD.
Mission file lost due to a broken HD.

I need to rebuild this behemoth from the beginning.

Honorguy
28-05-2009, 21:27
Mission file lost due to a broken HD.

I need to rebuild this behemoth from the beginning.

That sucks!!!!

Good luck with rebuilding

NS-IceFire
30-05-2009, 01:12
Yes that does suck indeed. What happened Finn? Sounds pretty catastrophic.