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Fusek
23-03-2011, 23:26
New idea for a nightfighting map over the Baltic in 1944. The Soviet ADD (Long Range Bombers) made several raids on the Finnish capital of Helsinki.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v643/syneasthesia/Helsinki.jpg

Mission objectives:

Soviet planes bomb the city, while the Finnish Ju88's attack a Soviet bomber airfield

Planes ( big circle is base 1, smaller is base 2:

1: USSR

B-25J (4 in air)
A-20C
Pe-2 110 series
P-40

2: USSR 10 pilots
Yak-9D
P-40

1: Finland
Ju-88A-4
BF-109G-6 (default only)
Brewster

2: Luftwaffe 10 pilots
BF-109G-6 (gunpods only)

Any ideas? :D

Fusek
24-03-2011, 09:53
Come on you Finns! No critique?

FlyingFinn
24-03-2011, 10:46
Yeah, add a bunch of homophobic, violent, drunk and chauvinistic lynching crowds for the red to bomb and I'm all good. Highly realistic.

Zorin
24-03-2011, 10:52
I only have one real issue with it and that is the map itself. It is so worn out as it had to stand in for pretty much every single region around the world already. Besides, seeing everyone clash in C3 within darkness might be somewhat cumbersome. Would definitely need to see how it plays cause maybe darkness is actually saving the day.

Fusek
24-03-2011, 11:04
I get your point Zorin, but unfortunately it's the only map in 4.10.1 that looks like Finland, has a body of water separating the sides and has good distance between bases. Time is set at 00:00, and while there is more than enough ambient light to keep visual contact, it's dark enough not to notice that this map is played over and over.

I need those online maps from Ultrapack, dammit! :wall:

Zorin
24-03-2011, 11:14
I always believed that Gulf of Finland, in the Helsinki region,did not suffer from any fps or lag issues.

Sgt_Pain
24-03-2011, 11:15
I think Finnish Air force still using Blenheims as bombers at that time also Bf 109 G-2 was used by the finns. I know Blenheim is AI plane so not sure how it fits settings on UK2.
If the G2 is too good maybe limit it to ex. 2 airborne.

Shouldn't P40 to be restricted default load out too?

Firelok
24-03-2011, 11:30
Gulf of Finland 2 the snowy one, got to be worth a go using that. Blenheim should be on I think, external flyable is less of a problem with level stab or use a mod.

Surely the russki's had given up on the P40 by this stage? Finnish 109 G2's vs La5s and Yak 9s seems ok to me. Morko Morane? maybe too.

Fusek
24-03-2011, 17:33
The problem with the Gulf of Finland map is that it is huge, and doesn't have a suitable base for reds close enough. And I don't want to use a static runway island. That would leave airstarts I guess. The map suggestion I made has good flighttimes and easy to navigate,which is helpfull in the dark sky.

The Ju88 was in use by the Finns from 1943 onwards, but the counter bombing was carried out by Do-17's. The Ju88 also gives the nice compass etc for navgation.

Algorex
24-03-2011, 18:54
First off, fine idea. Secondly night maps are crap.

Someone can probably paraphrase these two for you:
Kunnia pääkaupungin pelastajille, torjuntavoitto 1944 (http://www.ilmatorjuntaupseeriyhdistys.fi/1_98/torjuntavoitto.htm)

SUOMALAISPOMMITTAJIEN KOSTO (http://www.suomensotilas.fi/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=161:suomalaispommittajien-kosto&catid=56:catartikkeliarkistovanhat&Itemid=103)

I don't have the time ATM.

Sonko
24-03-2011, 22:34
Pe-8!

Firelok
24-03-2011, 23:22
I think it needs to be snowy, I think Finland is snowy in the winter, right? ;)

Fusek
25-03-2011, 11:48
A very valid point. So, we have to make a choice, smaller summer map with good flighttimes and mission layout, or a huge winter map with not enough bases in the area and static landingstrips in the baltic for the Soviets to land,aswellas the target for the Finns. Highly unrealistic imo.

Were there other big nighttime raids on Finnish cities in the Summer? That would be easier than switching the map.

As for the mission itself, I have 3 waves of bombers from different directions, each wave consisting of 3 flights of four planes (all veteran). They spawn at xx:15, xx:30, and xx:45 at different altitudes.

1st :
Li-2 Il4-4
Il-4

2nd:
Pe-8 Pe-8
Pe-8

3rd:
B-25C B-25C
B-25J
The reds also have a couple of single A-20G's as night fighters to protect the landing base.

Blue has one big raid at the end of the map, attacking the landing Pe-8's and B-25's, consisting of two flights of Blenheims, two Ju-88's with Sc1000's from high alt and one flight of Ju-88's (standins for Do-17, with small bombs)make a low level attack. This formation is covered by a flight of Finnish 109's.

Algorex
25-03-2011, 11:55
Not really, Tallinn on the other side of the gulf would be the closest match. Good day time target would be the Kotka harbour and German/Finnish fleet there (search for 'Niobe' for addition info)

Zorin
25-03-2011, 12:24
Some thoughts.

1. Maps do not need a bomb/ground attack target for both sides, IMO.
2. Op. Harpoon had 24 AI planes flying at the same time (only four with an attack routine) and that caused lag for some players. You will have 45+ AI planes and I do not think that that will work. Therefor I would advice to reduce the overall numbers.
3. Having all AI bomber crewed with veteran gunners will end in an outcry. ;)

Firelok
25-03-2011, 13:29
1. If I had to solve this problem I would use an offshore airstrip for landing and set red players the task of defending the bomber stream against Finnish fighters and use Gulf of finland 2. Finnish air defence patrols could airstart too but a bit lower and inland from Helsinki but having their best fighters take off from the nearby airfield. Problem with this is it's a big map that was never for online play, I dunno if technology has finally outstripped what original IL2:Forgotten Battles demanded of it.

2. I agree with Zorin in that I think some maps that don't have ground attack for both sides is a good thing.

3. However, Fusek is the man with the plan and we should wait and see if his mission works in practice. He's got experience of big AI bomber formation stuff from UP_Zuti Uk3 after all. :)

NS-IceFire
25-03-2011, 23:02
You know it might be handy to test the Gulf of Finland map and see how well it runs these days. It used to be horrendous but we have other maps now that have large numbers of objects on them and that are relatively large as well.

A light weight test without too much investment to see if it causes problems or not would be handy. Maybe I'll whip something up.