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ShamrockOneFive
16-02-2015, 16:53
With all of the announcements going on I've been thinking about what we might do for a IL-2 BoS server. Up to other syndicate members too but I wanted to present the case for something fairly similar to Battlefield1 but taking into consideration the new features and challenges that IL-2:BoS and BoM will provide.

Audience
I think we've done well to build a server community around a slightly more relaxed playstyle than some servers but with an emphasis on team and objective based gameplay. So I think from my point of view, a server with a similar goal is ideal in my eyes. I'd like to see the same basic setup of two teams with objectives to attack and defend spread out across a small map area but with enough room that you aren't on each other in under a minute. Aiming for average flight times to be similar to what we already have so that you're into the action quickly enough but its not outrageous.

Difficulty
BoS has built in settings of Normal and Expert. I think Expert is probably too expert compared to our experiences with Battlefields1 and Normal is a bit easier than we're used to. We might go custom or keep to one of the presets.

Rules
Half of me wants to keep everything the same and half of me wants to tinker. The same potential for abuses is there with this game as it was with IL-2 so base camping and kill stealing and vulching are all possibilities. We have a fresh start and so maybe some of how we lay down the rules might change or we might want to be more specific with certain things. IMHO the biggest problems we have are players that like to abuse the other players and I'd like to try and design ourselves around some of the easier ones in game.

Scenarios and Planes
We've had great success with our IL-2 server basing on historical scenarios and finding interesting things to fly and fight over. For BoS its going to be more of a challenge in some ways because the scenario and the history are very much built in. So are the planesets. Whereas we had huge decisions to make choosing aircraft in IL-2 1946 to make our scenarios work... BoS basically gives us 10 planes that are more or less suitable to go up against each other both historically and from a performance perspective.

For variety sake I think our missions will have to focus on different zones of the map, different small battle spaces, times of the day, and weather conditions. We have options for limited numbers of planes and air starts can all be done if we want to.

First Start
Playing online yesterday on our Stalingrad Winter mission... I started thinking that its the perfect starting ground for a new server setup. Assuming we keep a lot the same... I'd like to recreate that mission and use that to learn the mission builder and multiplayer system. I've been asking questions and finding out what is possible in Rise of Flight. We can probably do essentially what we have done for many years on Battlefields1 and see where that takes us. I'm assuming we'll have even more possibilities than we have right now for mission specific triggers but I just don't know everything yet.

I'm excited about what this might be like so I thought I'd write some of this stuff out. If others have ideas I'm all ears!

#402FOX
16-02-2015, 18:18
The sooner the FMB and Dedicated server software are out the better, we can then start to build missions, i am in favor of normal settings myself, It looks like we might get FMB & DS along with new maps all at a similar time (fingers crossed), Looking forward to extra planes in Battle of Moscow as well, hopefully the inclusion of MC 202 & the P40 is a pointer toward a Mediterranean for the following add on :smile:

Bone Head
16-02-2015, 19:53
We wont be limited to one server, I think we have capacity for 3 depending on the requirements obviously.

ShamrockOneFive
16-02-2015, 20:23
The sooner the FMB and Dedicated server software are out the better, we can then start to build missions, i am in favor of normal settings myself, It looks like we might get FMB & DS along with new maps all at a similar time (fingers crossed), Looking forward to extra planes in Battle of Moscow as well, hopefully the inclusion of MC 202 & the P40 is a pointer toward a Mediterranean for the following add on :smile:
Agreed! The FMB and Dserver are going to increase our options significantly. I think they said something about Q3 for the release of the summer and autumn maps for Stalingrad but maybe they will arrive sooner. Normal is my preference as well. I've turned off a few helpers in single player mode but I'm not yet ready to go in whole hog and fully understand each engines RPM, mix, pitch settings. Its quite a bit more in depth than IL-2 1946 as its max.


We wont be limited to one server, I think we have capacity for 3 depending on the requirements obviously.
Interesting! Definitely means we can cater to different audiences. I think I'd have my hands full trying to populate just one server with content but maybe someone else on the team will be interested. I'm sure it would be possible (not sure if preferable) if there were Normal and Expert mode servers with the same mission rotation as an option too.

remer1957
16-02-2015, 23:09
I think the winter stalingrad map is a great one to use as a transfer from our beloved 'old' IL2 to the new one and that is (I think) a good way to go, building (some) similar maps to those we already have on the new mission bulder. Players can then make a direct comparison between the two versions on a mission basis, they may find the jump to the new variant more straightforward too, being on fairly familiar ground. It will allow squads to get a feel for the new sim too, within these servers. I can see the new servers being populated straight from the off.:biggrin:

ShamrockOneFive
17-02-2015, 02:20
I think the winter stalingrad map is a great one to use as a transfer from our beloved 'old' IL2 to the new one and that is (I think) a good way to go, building (some) similar maps to those we already have on the new mission bulder. Players can then make a direct comparison between the two versions on a mission basis, they may find the jump to the new variant more straightforward too, being on fairly familiar ground. It will allow squads to get a feel for the new sim too, within these servers. I can see the new servers being populated straight from the off.:biggrin:

Good points. Good for the players and for the mission builder. I suspect that the first little while will really just be one mission while I get a handle on it and start seeing how it works. It'll be a real building time for us but once started over familiar territory then we can start to explore some of the other stuff available to us.

This Stalingrad map is a lot larger than the one in IL-2 1946 so we can run dozens of scenarios off of it in different places or maybe even the same or similar layout but with different targets and conditions. We'll have to be creative to provide the variety that we've been able to give. With Summer and Autumn maps coming and then Battle of Moscow coming too we'll be able to expand quickly. Plus there's already a third party map that shipped with the final version and a map builder is already contributing a second much larger scale map too... So only good things to come!

BTW: Going to try and change from saying map to mission. There's only a handful of maps even after BoM comes out but we'll have lots of multiplayer scenarios or missions to play.

Tx_Tip
17-02-2015, 13:05
I would suggest flying online at the various servers available to get an idea of how the game flow works. Also to get a good introduction of how to resupply, initiate the bases.
We at DBS are flying in the Expert servers. Vulching at some of them is prevalent and the norm. It's my understanding that those servers using "normal" settings and having bases within close proximity is even more so.
Anyone who is going to get involved with making missions should join us sometime. If you can't make it on Fridays. Then we can do some runs some other time. Possibly in the evening CamAm time as I will certainly be making missions once we get the FME so we can of course collaborate.
The main thing is to use this time to get acquainted. The FME manual for ROF is available along with some online tutorials.

ZeppiO
17-02-2015, 15:25
Ice,

Excellent points. I do agree that maybe starting with "Normal" might be a good idea just to get new players accustomed and comfortable with the game itself. Once people settle in to the "Normal" state of flight, maybe slowly inject customization to match BF1 level of difficulty. Also, will there ever be the option for open pit..any hint of news on that? Thanks.

ShamrockOneFive
18-02-2015, 04:56
I would suggest flying online at the various servers available to get an idea of how the game flow works. Also to get a good introduction of how to resupply, initiate the bases.
We at DBS are flying in the Expert servers. Vulching at some of them is prevalent and the norm. It's my understanding that those servers using "normal" settings and having bases within close proximity is even more so.
Anyone who is going to get involved with making missions should join us sometime. If you can't make it on Fridays. Then we can do some runs some other time. Possibly in the evening CamAm time as I will certainly be making missions once we get the FME so we can of course collaborate.
The main thing is to use this time to get acquainted. The FME manual for ROF is available along with some online tutorials.
Tough for me to schedule my off hours sometimes but maybe I'll join sometime. I'm not really any good with the Expert level controls mind you. Sounds like you might be our expert server designer :) I'm all for collaborating!


Ice,

Excellent points. I do agree that maybe starting with "Normal" might be a good idea just to get new players accustomed and comfortable with the game itself. Once people settle in to the "Normal" state of flight, maybe slowly inject customization to match BF1 level of difficulty. Also, will there ever be the option for open pit..any hint of news on that? Thanks.

For sure. Normal is a very good place to be and IMHO it might be the kind of fun setup that we're looking for. I still want to preserve the objective based gameplay so that's not going away at all. I don't think there is an open pit coming... the devs were asked and I don't remember what the answer was but my suspicion is no they won't be.

T}{OR
18-02-2015, 07:28
Just seen a couple of videos about BoS's campaign last night, where the guy flew it on Normal difficulty. Apparently it introduces some kind of rudder help, thus prohibiting full rudder movement. I would advise for a custom settings as once you get into them, Expert controls are nothing more than IL21946 has to offer with some added radiator controls, often plane specific. You still have prop pitch, mixture, flaps and supercharger controls like in '46.

If looking for an open pit solution, then IMO all of the physics and controls enabled / help disabled with stuff tailored to BF winning formula. :)

DBS will definitely jump on the BoS bandwagon when we get that D.server software.

Tx_Tip
19-02-2015, 13:40
IceFire,

Tough for me to schedule my off hours sometimes but maybe I'll join sometime. I'm not really any good with the Expert level controls mind you. Sounds like you might be our expert server designer I'm all for collaborating!

Actually I was thinking of hitting the Normal servers too. Getting an overall view of what is being done. Most of those are setup with close bases as in BF1. As mentioned if you have some CanAm evening time available we could go into all the servers to get a better view of what has been setup. The =DED= Meat Normal server is always full. There is something definitely there that could be tapped into for BF purposes.

Yes there certainly will be a strong learning curve when transitioning from 1946's FMB to BoS'. We all all looking forward to what the D Server and FME brings.

remer1957
19-02-2015, 23:47
Now that BFs will have a server, I'm looking forward to this game a bit more...just got to get a new machine so I can run it.

ShamrockOneFive
20-02-2015, 00:37
Just seen a couple of videos about BoS's campaign last night, where the guy flew it on Normal difficulty. Apparently it introduces some kind of rudder help, thus prohibiting full rudder movement. I would advise for a custom settings as once you get into them, Expert controls are nothing more than IL21946 has to offer with some added radiator controls, often plane specific. You still have prop pitch, mixture, flaps and supercharger controls like in '46.

If looking for an open pit solution, then IMO all of the physics and controls enabled / help disabled with stuff tailored to BF winning formula. :)

DBS will definitely jump on the BoS bandwagon when we get that D.server software.
That was interesting Thor. I didn't know that a rudder assist existed so I went in and checked. It's not part of Normal difficulty but a custom setting that you can enable for extra help. Normal is full difficulty from the flight model perspective just slightly simplified engine management which IMHO is not too bad given how IL-2 BoS does the engine management through an AI routine rather than the old IL-2 Sturmovik route where you could actually get extra performance.



IceFire,


Actually I was thinking of hitting the Normal servers too. Getting an overall view of what is being done. Most of those are setup with close bases as in BF1. As mentioned if you have some CanAm evening time available we could go into all the servers to get a better view of what has been setup. The =DED= Meat Normal server is always full. There is something definitely there that could be tapped into for BF purposes.

Yes there certainly will be a strong learning curve when transitioning from 1946's FMB to BoS'. We all all looking forward to what the D Server and FME brings.
That sounds like fun. Let's try and set something up in the next few weeks for sure. I haven't ventured on to multiplayer at all yet so this will be a good introduction.



Now that BFs will have a server, I'm looking forward to this game a bit more...just got to get a new machine so I can run it.
I've gone back and forth with my interest with BoS but I have to say that given what we have now and what is promised to come just in content I'm getting more and more excited. The thing that I am still impressed with is the feeling of flying. I'm trying not to get caught up in flight model discussions and rivet counting like I used to in the old IL-2 Oleg Maddox's Ready Room. Trying to avoid all of those things and just enjoy the game and the challenge the game presents and its really really fun once you get into it. I'm not even minding the grind to unlock the various equipment at this point - its not as bad as I thought it would be and its giving me a chance to really try everything out.

I'm still happy to hop back into IL-2 1946 but I can see more and more of my time getting consumed in the new one.

ShamrockOneFive
20-02-2015, 00:49
While we're in the very early stages I wanted to bring up a couple of other issues.

Obviously vulching and base camping are issues that we've confronted on our servers before. They will happen no matter what we do but I wanted to put it out there and lets have a discussion on ways we might be able to mitigate the behaviours. I think the crux of the issue is not that you're shooting someone on the ground but rather that its very un-fun for the person on the receiving end and that one or two guys can put an entire base out of commission. Base camping is even more nebulous and its very inconsistent in the ways that we deal with it. Maybe we can find a way to reduce the need to constantly ride herd on the crowd and our admins don't have to dispense justice quite as much.

It might be optimistic but seeing as we're starting out entirely fresh... this is a chance to discuss. Do it the same? Do it differently?

Multiple bases mandated? Heavy flak batteries take care of base campers? Air starts? Do we want to regularly add a rear base with a bomber air start for example? We do this a bit on BF1 but its inconsistent. If we go this route then does everyone want an air start? Do we even want that experience? Plane sets will probably be more homogeneous where if its a BoS_MissionNameHere then its probably got all 10 BoS flyables. If its BoM_MissionNameHere then its probably got all 10 BoM flyables. I can see the Ju88A-4, P-40E and MC.202 making the transition to Stalingrad scenarios but some of the others might not. Everything is Eastern Front and both sides are reasonably well balanced from a historical perspective so that may make things easier. Its very concentrated into 10 planes now and 20 planes later.

These aren't all things I'm necessarily calling for but I figure if we're starting fresh we can try and change things up or we can keep doing as we're doing. This is our opportunity.

T}{OR
20-02-2015, 10:26
1.009 fun starts next week! Dserver and FMB included on the list.

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/14702-developer-diary-part-89-discussion/

ShamrockOneFive
20-02-2015, 12:22
Was just going to share that! This all comes sooner than I expected and that's a great list of updates and changes.

Looks like I'm going to have to jump into this sooner than later! :)

Revvin
20-02-2015, 16:47
Good news indeed, I know you guys have waited a long time to be able to run a server and it will be good to see what the mission editor and game engine are capable of doing

remer1957
20-02-2015, 19:44
Probably the good thing about unlocks is that players do have to be committed to the sim and thus are more prepared when they fly online. The amount of folks who come online to 1946 and then find it too dificult and lose heart, disappear and never come back is not small (as a percentage.)

FlyingFinn
20-02-2015, 21:38
1.009 fun starts next week!
Reading up on that and I might actually go and get it within a week.

Prepare to bend over, boys!

ShamrockOneFive
21-02-2015, 01:20
Ruh roh! :D

#402FOX
21-02-2015, 08:17
Reading up on that and I might actually go and get it within a week.

Prepare to bend over, boys!

Don't worry boys he is rusty as hell. ;)

T}{OR
21-02-2015, 12:04
Reading up on that and I might actually go and get it within a week.

Prepare to bend over, boys!

I am going to quote lt. Harry Callahan here: "Swell..."

ShamrockOneFive
21-02-2015, 13:58
Don't worry boys he is rusty as hell. ;)

So I can watch as the first 20mm shell passes my canopy narrowly missing my plane but secure in the knowledge that the second, third, and fourth rounds will connect. And that's when he's drunk :D

#402FOX
21-02-2015, 16:38
So I can watch as the first 20mm shell passes my canopy narrowly missing my plane but secure in the knowledge that the second, third, and fourth rounds will connect. And that's when he's drunk :D

We could limit him to the Ju52 :D

Tx_Tip
21-02-2015, 17:44
While we're in the very early stages I wanted to bring up a couple of other issues.

Obviously vulching and base camping are issues that we've confronted on our servers before. They will happen no matter what we do but I wanted to put it out there and lets have a discussion on ways we might be able to mitigate the behaviours. I think the crux of the issue is not that you're shooting someone on the ground but rather that its very un-fun for the person on the receiving end and that one or two guys can put an entire base out of commission. Base camping is even more nebulous and its very inconsistent in the ways that we deal with it. Maybe we can find a way to reduce the need to constantly ride herd on the crowd and our admins don't have to dispense justice quite as much..

So far I have found the Flak around the Bases insufficient to discourage Base Campers and vulchers . This is most probably due to the fact that most of the servers do not expressly prohibit vulching. I also believe that much of the airbase furrballs stem from the players Icons showing up on the Map within the Bases "Radar". We of course do not know how these things are set up. I like the idea of Messages appearing when E/A activity is noted within bases and targets.


Multiple bases mandated? Heavy flak batteries take care of base campers? Air starts? Do we want to regularly add a rear base with a bomber air start for example? We do this a bit on BF1 but its inconsistent. If we go this route then does everyone want an air start? Do we even want that experience?

With the BF1 server popularity and gameplay in mind. I think having bomber Air Starts for a similar BF-BoS server would be a very good thing.


Plane sets will probably be more homogeneous where if its a BoS_MissionNameHere then its probably got all 10 BoS flyables. If its BoM_MissionNameHere then its probably got all 10 BoM flyables. I can see the Ju88A-4, P-40E and MC.202 making the transition to Stalingrad scenarios but some of the others might not. Everything is Eastern Front and both sides are reasonably well balanced from a historical perspective so that may make things easier. Its very concentrated into 10 planes now and 20 planes later.

Perhaps limiting armament would also play into this for balancing purposes. Again we do not know yet if or how that can be setup for the Bases.


These aren't all things I'm necessarily calling for but I figure if we're starting fresh we can try and change things up or we can keep doing as we're doing. This is our opportunity.

All good.

ShamrockOneFive
22-02-2015, 04:12
Hopped online tonight with multiplayer. It's very interesting and very different multiplayer than IL-2 1946 so I thought I'd point out a few interesting bits.

A lot of interface elements present that we just don't have in IL-2 1946. Icons, base radar (with delayed returns), externals views only show you things you can see and already know about, the icons turn from neutral to a colour at about 5km (Normal default), player names should up close in. Despite close bases I didn't see really any vulching. The dogfights I had were pretty epic affairs with a lot of twisting, turning, sneaking up on a guy, going into a break turn, etc. It was very immersive and much more intense than my usual IL-2 sorties. The German planes do feel like they have an advantage (especially when you're in the seat of a LaGG-3) but the Yak-1 Series 69 and La-5 Series 8 are quite capable fighters too.

Flak was heavy over the bases but inconsequential.... mind you the lighter flak was never properly engaged. Offline the 20mm light flak can be devastating.

The other interesting thing was that the scenarios I was playing had multiple bases. Three or four aside - the radar gave you can idea which sectors were more populated and then you kind of chose which area of the front to tackle.

Bone Head
22-02-2015, 13:11
Guys dont worry about Finn, he has been with a woman since he used to fly IL2 so his hands will be more shaky. I'd be supprised if he could hit a bulls arse with a banjo these days. :hunter:

ShamrockOneFive
23-02-2015, 05:30
So it looks like if the server has "Global stats" set to ON you can only use the weapons you've unlocked in the single player campaign. If Global stats is set to OFF then everyone can use all of the available unlocks and equipment.

Obviously something for us to keep in mind.

T}{OR
24-02-2015, 16:39
1.009 is out. (http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/14768-game-version-1009-discussion/) Downloading now.

About D.server:


And of course dedicated server is one of the key parts of the update. Everyone can now run their own multiplayer mission. Note that at this stage weíre offering you a Beta version of the server software which implies some simple rules of its use.

To start a server you need to be authorized on the Master serve with a game account. And since it is not possible to play and host with the same account simultaneously, you might need an extra account. But of course you donít have to buy a new key for this purpose - you can use one of our specially prepared Dserver accounts. To get login and password to such account you need to submit a request at our Customer service helpdesk.

Attention!
To get your ticket processed please follow the following template precisely:
login to your account at http://il2sturmovik.com/
follow this link https://il2sturmovik...upport/request/
put this as the ticket title: DSERVER please
enter the text of the ticket as follows:
Hello!
Please, provide me with a special account that I would like to use to host a dedicated server. I know that such account would not let me play the game and that it doesnít have planes on it, and I acknowledge that such account is the property of 1C Game Studios.
send this request and wait for response;
receive the account credentials and put them into the .SDS server configuration file.

And attention once more!
Giving out the extra dserver account takes time, so Iím afraid some of you may have to wait until tomorrow, because our customer service guy needs to sleep sometimes too.

FYI:
The file with .SDS extension saves all the settings of your server. A mission can be saved as .MISSION, or .MSNBIN - for ranked servers. To help you to get to know the new features we suggest you take a look at the configuration files that we used on the BOS EU Normal server. The archive that you can get via this link contains the following files:
BoS_MP_RD.msnbin - mission file
BoS_MP_RD.eng
BoS_MP_RD.ger
BoS_MP_RD.rus - mission description files
BoS_MP_RD_EU_normal.sds - server config file

ShamrockOneFive, will you do us the honor of applying?

#402FOX
24-02-2015, 20:34
Great news, will download tonight and try out tomorrow.

Novotny
24-02-2015, 23:12
I'd have you all but my Track-IR was bust by some drunken idiot. As for Finn, he spends most of his time in the kitchen now, doing his mistresses bidding ;)

SMURFY1967
25-02-2015, 12:45
Mistress or master?, he won`t be rusty anyway cos from what I`ve heard he`s always well greased.

T}{OR
25-02-2015, 19:56
Having briefly tested 1.009 I can say that the DM has bin drastically changed. No more paper planes and you need to make your shots count, much like in IL2'46. Also, bombers do actually stand a chance now.

FlyingFinn
26-02-2015, 08:57
I think I'll be joining you fine fellows this weekend then :redface:

Griffo
05-03-2015, 01:51
Hello everyone.
Unfortunatelly i do not have much time to play but maybe i can join you again very soon.
I totally stop playing 1946 because i have found BOS much more challenging and fun, even in early access. Finn and Ice described the sensations quite well.
Forget wonder woman view (probably it will never happen). In my opinion icons kill imersion, tactics and objective oriented gameplay. The game seems to much arcadish.
Snow makes contacts quite visible (not easy but possible) and i do not belive in "transition" stages. A proper engine management its not very hard to achieve. Navigation is a bigger problem. Distinctive landscape marks (main city area and the Volga) or events like major smoke columns or fires may help in expert settings. I do not belive that trying to emulate 46 maps will work. I dont know, it just feels different.
I think BOS its not a better 1946. It is a different concept that targets very different audiences: newcomers to the genre and old foxes with many years of 1946.
Please let me know if you need help on the expert server. I will be happy to assist you if i can.
Ice said that this can be a great oportunity but i think we must think a bit out of the (46) box...

My 2 cents.

Salut gentlemen!

(btw what is the server name?)

Messer
05-03-2015, 07:58
~S~ Griffo,

Nice to hear from you again.
Hope u have lots of fun playing it.
And hope to see u again.
Say hi from me to Tomcat.:crazypilot:

Messer.