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Brcn
03-01-2006, 21:43
Briefing For Blue Team
Good afternoon! The US Airforce continues to attack our infrastructure and industry in daylight bombing. Radar has figured that today's target are the ball bearing factories in Schweinfurt, the city in C2. Of course this facory is immensly important to our war effort, it must be protected. Shoot down any bomber in the area!

Briefing for Red Team
Todays target is the city of Schweinfurt, the city in C2. Most of the German ball bearings are manufacterued in two sperate industrial complexes. Both of them need to be destroyed. Fighters are supposed to escort you as far as possible, while fighter bombers may have a go after the AAA in C3. Good luck!

Map: Online4Summer
Weather: Good
Clouds: 1500m
Time: 17:30

Available Planes For Blue Team:
Bf-109G-2
Bf-109G-6
Bf-110G-2
Fw-190A-4
Fw-190A-5

Available Planes For Red Team:
SpitfireMkVbLF
SpitfireMkVbLFCLP
SpitfireMkVIII
SpitfireMkIXc
SpitfireMkIXcCLP
A-20G
B-25J-1NA
P-38J
P-47D-10
P-47D-22
B-17F
B-24J-100-CF

Further Information For Blue Team
Blue has to defend their targets effectively as there are many capable bombers and fighter/bombers in the red team arsenal. There are many vagons hidden in the buildings in the city of Schweinfurt (Soldatenkovo), C2. They are in northwest of the city. There are also a some cars in the town at C3 (Shubinino), but they are not important for mission objectives, as the red team need to destroy the vagons only. The AAA located there can give the blue team an early warning of approaching enemies.

Further Information For Red Team
The ground targets needed to be destroyed in order to win this map is located in northwes part of the city Schweinfurt (Soldatenkovo). Red team has to destroy at least 100 targets there, but with the nice bombers and fighter/bombers in their arsenal it won't be a hard task. There are not many AAA there, only a couple of 20 mm.


Notes:
This map is called if no team wins Objective_Prokhorovka, Objective_ProkhorovkaBlue, ObjectiveProkhorovkaRed.

If red team wins this map, Objective_Finlandred is called. If blue team wins this map, Objective_Belgorodblue is called. If there is no winner, the next map will be Objective_Birma43.

Brcn
03-01-2006, 21:44
Briefing For Blue Team
Good afternoon! The US Airforce continues to attack our infrastructure and industry in daylight bombing. Radar has figured that today's target are the ball bearing factories in Schweinfurt, the city in C2. Of course this facory is immensly important to our war effort, it must be protected. Shoot down any bomber in the area!

Briefing for Red Team
Todays target is the city of Schweinfurt, the city in C2. Most of the German ball bearings are manufacterued in two sperate industrial complexes. Both of them need to be destroyed. Fighters are supposed to escort you as far as possible, while fighter bombers may have a go after the AAA in C3. Good luck!

Map: Online4Summer
Weather: Good
Clouds: 1500m
Time: 17:30

Available Planes For Blue Team:
Bf-109G-2
Bf-109G-6
Bf-110G-2
Fw-190A-4
Fw-190A-5
Fw-190A-6

Available Planes For Red Team:
SpitfireMkVbLF
SpitfireMkVbLFCLP
SpitfireMkVIII
SpitfireMkIXc
SpitfireMkIXcCLP
A-20G
B-25J-1NA
P-38J
P-47D-10
P-47D-22
B-17F
B-24J-100-CF

Further Information For Blue Team
Blue has to defend their targets effectively as there are many capable bombers and fighter/bombers in the red team arsenal. There are many vagons hidden in the buildings in the city of Schweinfurt (Soldatenkovo), C2. They are in northwest of the city. There are also a some cars in the town at C3 (Shubinino), but they are not important for mission objectives, as the red team need to destroy the vagons only. The AAA located there can give the blue team an early warning of approaching enemies.

Further Information For Red Team
The ground targets needed to be destroyed in order to win this map is located in northwes part of the city Schweinfurt (Soldatenkovo). Red team has to destroy at least 100 targets there, but with the nice bombers and fighter/bombers in their arsenal it won't be a hard task. There are not many AAA there, only a couple of 20 mm.


Notes:
This map is called if blue team wins Objective_Warszawa.

If red team wins this map, Objective_Finlandred is called. If blue team wins this map, Objective_Belgorodblue is called. If there is no winner, the next map will be Objective_Birma43.

Brcn
03-01-2006, 21:45
Briefing For Blue Team
Good afternoon! The US Airforce continues to attack our infrastructure and industry in daylight bombing. Radar has figured that today's target are the ball bearing factories in Schweinfurt, the city in C2. Of course this facory is immensly important to our war effort, it must be protected. Shoot down any bomber in the area!

Briefing for Red Team
Todays target is the city of Schweinfurt, the city in C2. Most of the German ball bearings are manufacterued in two sperate industrial complexes. Both of them need to be destroyed. Fighters are supposed to escort you as far as possible, while fighter bombers may have a go after the AAA in C3. Good luck!

Map: Online4Summer
Weather: Good
Clouds: 1500m
Time: 17:30

Available Planes For Blue Team:
Bf-109G-2
Bf-109G-6
Bf-110G-2
Fw-190A-4
Fw-190A-5

Available Planes For Red Team:
SpitfireMkVbLF
SpitfireMkVbLFCLP
SpitfireMkVIII
SpitfireMkIXc
SpitfireMkIXcCLP
A-20G
B-25J-1NA
P-38J
P-47D-10
P-47D-22
P-51C-NT
B-17F
B-24J-100-CF

Further Information For Blue Team
Blue has to defend their targets effectively as there are many capable bombers and fighter/bombers in the red team arsenal. There are many vagons hidden in the buildings in the city of Schweinfurt (Soldatenkovo), C2. They are in northwest of the city. There are also a some cars in the town at C3 (Shubinino), but they are not important for mission objectives, as the red team need to destroy the vagons only. The AAA located there can give the blue team an early warning of approaching enemies.

Further Information For Red Team
The ground targets needed to be destroyed in order to win this map is located in northwes part of the city Schweinfurt (Soldatenkovo). Red team has to destroy at least 100 targets there, but with the nice bombers and fighter/bombers in their arsenal it won't be a hard task. There are not many AAA there, only a couple of 20 mm.


Notes:
This map is called if red team wins Objective_Berlin, Objective_BerlinBlue, Objective_BerlinRed.

If red team wins this map, Objective_Finlandred is called. If blue team wins this map, Objective_Belgorodblue is called. If there is no winner, the next map will be Objective_Birma43.

Brcn
03-01-2006, 21:50
Schweinfurt : not even won a single time by blue team

We can make it harder for red team by adding some AAA in the target area. Currently there are only 3 20 mm AA.

Decreasing the plane count for red may not be historically correct as Allied had huge numbers of aircraft at that time, and actually were successful. But this is only my opinion.


I'd also question the Schweinfurt map with it's dubious 'air start' from the high alt strip for P38s (if it's still like it was) et al. Fine if they're all going to do bomb runs..but they don't. How about putting all heavy bombers on the top strip and leaving fighters/fighter bombers with the same [dis]advantage as the blue side have?

Do you want me to adjust the airfield(s) so that all red fighters start at a lower alt base? It is an easy to do task.

Any other comments on this map?

Thanks

Brcn

norrismcwhirter
04-01-2006, 01:27
Hi,

it's a difficult one because blue should be facing daunting odds and I wouldn't like to see more AAA on that map because it's choppy enough as it is around the target.

IIRC, there were certainly no spits present at Schweinfurt (if we are suggesting that the map details the raid itself) and there were no US fighter escorts either. But there was a lot of AAA...which we can't have.

Regardless, here's a suggestion...Are there any more high alt bases on the map which blue could use as a platform? If so, for their bonus, how about having blue being able to take off from there so as to simulate attacking the bombers on their way to target without all the climbing? Red would still use the same bases, of course.

I'd like the same to happen for BoB, too...with red getting airstarts as their bonus.

Ta,
Norris

Yellow 2
04-01-2006, 08:51
I notice that there are no early P51s for the red team. Could we swap the Spitfire MKVs for non bubble top Mustangs. The Spit Vs are outclassed and I would assume most people who want to fly the Spitfire choose one of the later marks.

Cheers :)

Brcn
04-01-2006, 09:47
Hi,

it's a difficult one because blue should be facing daunting odds and I wouldn't like to see more AAA on that map because it's choppy enough as it is around the target.Norris

There are only 3 20mm flak around the targets. And there are some more in a totally different area, in C3. There are only cars in C3, which is not the mission objcetive for red team. I can move the flak from there to the real target area. I know it might still be choppier than it is, but at least I will not be adding more flak, just relocating them. Currently there are 4 88m flak in C3 (two of them doesn't fire actually, just stationary objects).


IIRC, there were certainly no spits present at Schweinfurt (if we are suggesting that the map details the raid itself) and there were no US fighter escorts either. But there was a lot of AAA...which we can't have.Norris

I really don't know what really happened historically, and you are right about us having many AAA there. I believe your words and will remove the spits if there are no objections. Perhaps we can add a nice Spit as a bonus?


Regardless, here's a suggestion...Are there any more high alt bases on the map which blue could use as a platform? If so, for their bonus, how about having blue being able to take off from there so as to simulate attacking the bombers on their way to target without all the climbing? Red would still use the same bases, of course.

Unfortunately all the bases in the area that blue team occupies are at low altitude. So I will have to remove the fighters of the red team from the airfield that is at 2.2k, that seems the only solution. But again red team can have a bonus fighter starting at high altitude base if they win the previous map. What do you think?


I'd like the same to happen for BoB, too...with red getting airstarts as their bonus.

I don't like airstarts at all, especially if I am on the other team and trying to fly a bomber. It will take me 15 + mins to get to 3k, even a crappy fighter will get to that alt. in 5-6 mins. Thinking they started at 2+k, this will make the things worse. But that is my opinion only.

Thanks for the opinions. I wish there were more people coming here.

Brcn

Brcn
04-01-2006, 09:49
I notice that there are no early P51s for the red team. Could we swap the Spitfire MKVs for non bubble top Mustangs. The Spit Vs are outclassed and I would assume most people who want to fly the Spitfire choose one of the later marks.

Cheers :)

We can do that. The only P51 presents in this map is a bonus plane appearing only if the red team wins the previous map. If we remove the spitfires I ll ad the p51.

I totally agree about the SpitV, i will remove it anyway.

norrismcwhirter
04-01-2006, 12:25
Hi,

I was also thinking about moving flak...if we assume the map to represent the Sch. raid then they would have had to take periodic flak along their flight path. So, moving it wouldn't be too much of a problem.

I think taking the Spit off completely would be bad as a lot of people like to fly it...irrespective of the accuracy of it. Bonus plane sounds fine, though..as does P51, although I think they used P47s to escort at Sch....although they couldn't go all the way.

With respect to airstarts, I know you said you didn't like them but they do offer some possibilities that are only found in co-ops so far...like climbing like mad to meet raids etc. So, I'd just like to throw some new(?) ideas into the pot for making airstart positions (not tried so don't know if they work)

1. The 'movable runways'...is there a way to change (frig) their elevation on a map? I know you can frig carrier speeds and such like, beyond what the mission editor permits, because I've done to to get VTOL take offs of jets etc. This way, you'd get floating runway platforms (odd, I know) where you could have it where:

a. Red wins...get's the alt advantage.
b. Blue wins..same as for a. but blue.
c. No winner...both get an airstart.

2. Have both sides operating from carriers which can get sunk (through a collision or something?) at the very beginning of a map. Hence, spawning aircraft get an automatic airstart. This may even work if you can place a carrier onto 'land' (by hand manipulating the mission files)...hopefully the land would destroy the carrier rather than just beaching it! Obviously, they'd need an alternative strip for landing.

Just some ideas, like I said.

PS: I sent you the parser via email.

Ta,
Norris

Brcn
04-01-2006, 13:20
Thanks for the file. I will look into it when I have some time.

There are totally 5 flaks firing for blue side (except the ones near the a/f). 2 88s and 3 20s. I am thinking of relocating 1 one the 88s inside the city and adding one more to the route that the bombers will come. I think we agreed on this (I hope more will come and read/comment about this before I make the final change).

The problem for dogfight maps that you can't have moving objects, so making a carier sink is impossible as far as i know. You can always place a carrier on the top of a mountain, and it will sink after it is hit with bombs. But it will be a weird scene. I can place some runways on the mountain.

As bonuses regarding altitude advantage it is a good idea and not hard to do. That will require a near complete change on the red/blue versions of the map.

Airstarts can be done with decreasing the spawn area, but cannot be tested unless we have the map in rotation and is played by 30 or so players. But still there will be a few guys who will be starting on land. And this can cause some injustice.

So,
1. We agreed on relocating and maybe adding one more flak around targets.
2. We agreed on P51s and removing the older spits.
3. We haven't agreed on making the red fighters start at a lower alt. a/f.
4. We are still talking about the bonus regarding the starting altitude (can be done but will not be 100% effective as far as i know)

I hope we have more comments from other people as well.

norrismcwhirter
04-01-2006, 15:56
Hi,

I was thinking of the collision in terms of placing two ships in proximity to each other but it was late last night and I don't think that would work at all now.

I also suspect that it's not so easy to frig the runways etc as no one else has done it (or, perhaps, they just didn't like the idea...)

After being exposed to slimbo's co-ops (which are truly surreal at times), I just thought that it might be possible to bring some novel things in, good or bad.

In fact, I can email you slimbo's co-ops if you like as they contain quite a few good ideas for missions.

Ta,
Norris

norrismcwhirter
04-01-2006, 16:30
Hi,

What's your thoughts on airstarts, overall, JtD? Was there a particular reason you chose not to have them (although there do appear to be a few but I'm not sure if it's a bug or not because I don't always get them).

I know that co-ops heavily feature air starts and I've flown some "excellent" Schweinfurt "recreations" with Bf110s and 190s taking on large formations of B17s with P47 fighter escort. Needless to say, it was an eye-opening bloodbath for both sides. I know the map may look strange with dodgy runways here and there but it might be a good idea for (in the words of Hunter S Thompson ;)) a simple "experimental" map which we can easily chuck away if we get complaints about it (or build on if we don't).

I've also created a new thread for ideas/feedback etc (hope no one minds) and posted some more of my thoughts there:

http://www.battle-fields.com/commscentre/showthread.php?p=96720#post96720

Ta,
Norris

Brcn
04-01-2006, 21:01
With JtD's experience of the map's history, i am thinking about building a new base for blues, at higher altitude. There will be lower quality planes on that base (A-4 and 110s only, trying to emphasis historical difficulties of Luftwaffe). If one wants a better plane he has to invest some time climbing with it. P51 will only appear as a bonus plane, as it's used to be. I will remove the older spits.

If there are any objections please say it before i make the final change and upload it to the server.

Thanks

Scrappy_D
04-01-2006, 22:02
For the reds can we keep the spit mkV111 as its a newer design than the spit 1X's and flies better :) ... remove all the clipped wing jobs but keep the 8 ... pretty please ?????

Brcn
04-01-2006, 22:21
For the reds can we keep the spit mkV111 as its a newer design than the spit 1X's and flies better :) ... remove all the clipped wing jobs but keep the 8 ... pretty please ?????

Of course. I ll just remove the V model. The rest will stay.

NS-IceFire
04-01-2006, 22:29
History guy in my screams out a bit....some opinions.

At the time of Schweinfurt there were very few Spitfire IX squadrons around. No Spitfire VIII's whatsoever. The Spitfire VIII has almost no combat history in the European theater. VIII's were slated for tropical or desert operations which is why most of the VIII's you find are from squadrons that flew in the Mediteranian, Italy, south east Asia, and parts of the Pacific (with the RAAF).

The Mark Vb was the staple of the RAF fighters at the time and the Mark IXc was only somewhat present. The Mark VIII was not present at all. Infact the Mark VIII, while technically a 1943 aircraft, really did not appear anywhere important until very late 1943 or early 1944.

As for Luftwaffe bases...I agree, we need another base and I like the concept of putting an A-4, a Bf110, and maybe a Bf109F-4 at the base. Perhaps further back and on the otherside of the city and at higher altitude (I think there is an unused strip there). This way they are higher and able to meet the bombers but not as well equipped.

Brcn
04-01-2006, 22:34
That a/f is also at low altitude. I need to make a new a/f, no problem, will be done :D. F4 will be also added there.

The spits are staying after JtD's comment, he is more familiar with the map's history in the server. Unless many people want them to be removed, of course :)

bokatar
05-01-2006, 00:59
what about red fighter/bombers, high alt. base again or moved?

Grey_Mouser
05-01-2006, 01:02
This is one map where I get lots of feedback that people like it!

When the map was new, there was not Spitfire Mk VIII or Mk IX and it was a turkey shoot for blue team...now there are fast climbing late Mk spits and the Lightning and Jug still get good high altitude starts....bomber jocks like it too.

This is one map that I'd leave alone and add a second map similar...like Objective_Schweinfurt2 or something like that and add changes as most think is applicable and test it out....just hate to change it right now cause when the map was new, it was largely disliked but that has seemed to change and is very competitive right now...maybe give blue medium bombers like Bf110 and Stuka a high altitude base start.

For what it is worth, the 43 mk V spit is aweful as a 43 plane. I've flown the map recently and I think the Spit MkV, as modelled in this sim without the latest greatest Merlin and no ordinance to carry, simply is a waste of an aircraft slot...I don't see people selecting it...can't remember the last time.

Another thing I'd add...if we want to limit Mk108's...don't put in a G6...we all know the G2 performs better and the only reason to even fly a G6 is for the big guns. It isn't necessarily historical to have no G6, but if and only if, we would want to limit big guns on bombers that would be the only way to do it. Lots of folks fly the big bombers on this map so maybe the Mk108's aught to be there.

Grey_Mouser
05-01-2006, 01:05
With JtD's experience of the map's history, i am thinking about building a new base for blues, at higher altitude. There will be lower quality planes on that base (A-4 and 110s only, trying to emphasis historical difficulties of Luftwaffe). If one wants a better plane he has to invest some time climbing with it. P51 will only appear as a bonus plane, as it's used to be. I will remove the older spits.

If there are any objections please say it before i make the final change and upload it to the server.

Thanks

I totally agree with this logic...divebombers, medium bombers with bombsights, really slow climbing planes like the Jug or ones that people aren't likely to take without an incentive can be given a higher altitude start or airstart to help balance gameplay.

I do believe that we need to strike a balance between gameplay and history because we can't easily control the numbers of aircraft available to chose or armament...only types available.

Also, a second blue base is a good thing...where ever possible, I think 2 bases is essential to releive both traffic jams and give pilots a place to spawn and take off if their base is shut down by rocket bearing Sturmoviks etc...

Brcn
05-01-2006, 01:34
Here are the following changes that will be made for now:

1. I think all of us at least agreed on a second high altitude base for the blue team. This will be done.
2. I will relocate the AAA and add one more 88.
3. The spit V won't be removed due to some objections (it is not that important to remove it or not to IMO)
4. P51 will stay only as a bonus plane.
5. Blue side will have the A-5 in lower base and G-2 in the higher base as their bonus. G-2 will always be available at the lower alt. base.
6. 109 F4 will also be on the higher alt. base for the blue team.


I have doubts for removing g-6, as it was the largely used model for Luft. historically. The plane has a worse performance than the G2 and Allied fighters outperform it in this map. It will be on the lower alt. base. It is already harder for the blues to win the map, removing the MK108 will lower the chances to shoot down the bombers for the Luft.

I also suggest relocating the p38 to the lower alt. base. It has a good climb rate. If i flied the red team and decided on bombing the target area, i would choose a bomber with greater payload and a bombsight to avoid the flak. But if i decided on harassing the blue base with a fast plane, p38 would be my choice. At least we can make this harder for the P38 if we make it start from a low altitude.

NS-IceFire
05-01-2006, 03:22
IIRC, there were certainly no spits present at Schweinfurt (if we are suggesting that the map details the raid itself) and there were no US fighter escorts either. But there was a lot of AAA...which we can't have.
Pretty certain that both a few RCAF squadrons and several RAF squadrons of Spitfires (IX's flying high, Vbs in the middle and low) escorted the bombers in and out of the disaster that was Schweinfurt. I'll have to go re-read about this but they were there....just not actually over the area where the bombers were mauled.

norrismcwhirter
05-01-2006, 07:20
Pretty certain that both a few RCAF squadrons and several RAF squadrons of Spitfires (IX's flying high, Vbs in the middle and low) escorted the bombers in and out of the disaster that was Schweinfurt. I'll have to go re-read about this but they were there....just not actually over the area where the bombers were mauled.

IIRC, the account I read, as you say, had Spitfires escort them part way but certainly not over the target. Even the long range P47 escort didn't go all the way with them.

Ta,
Norris

Brcn
05-01-2006, 12:01
Changes are done, and it will be uploaded soon.

The following changes/additions are done:

1. Built a new base for blue team, at 2120m. 190 A-4, 109 F-4 and 110 G-2 are the available planes at that base. The blue side will have a G-2 at that base also if they win the previous map. They keep their A-6 bonus as well at the original base. Airstart might be possible at the new base, but it will be clear after some tests in the server.

2. Added one 88 Flak around the target area.

3. Added two 20 mm and one 88m around the new blue base.

Now there are four bases totally 2 for each team. Red team has one base at alt. 2240 and one base at alt. 140m. Blue team has one base at alt 2120m and one base at alt. 140m.

norrismcwhirter
05-01-2006, 12:21
Cheers m8. Will try and feed back.

Yellow 2
05-01-2006, 15:01
No problem with what has been suggested so far and I can sympathise with Icefires history comment. I suppose the point is that do people want the maps and plane sets to be absolutely historical? Or is the map builder given some license to introduce aircraft that could have been there to balance out the sides and make maps enjoyable and to be able to stretch a point to make up for missing aircraft that we will never have.

Cheers :)

Brcn
05-01-2006, 15:07
I think we don't need to be 100% historically accurate, we need to balance the gameplay. After all this is a game, and it needs to be enjoyable. In some scenarios being 100% historically accurate is more than enough to provide the best gameplay, but sometimes we need to make a couple of changes regarding the historical facts, like adding a plane that wasn't actually there or removing some AAA etc.

Xiola
05-01-2006, 15:17
I agree about keeping the Mk8, its one of the few maps with it and its my favourite plane.

But I agree if blue have never won the map then it needs sorting out.

This is a very fun map for me to play on both sides, I really dont care which side I fly , unlike some maps.

I think the one thing that could be done to balance the map is to have the Blue base a little higher so that they can intercept quicker. This may shift the balance of the map a bit in order for blue to win sometimes.

I dont think adding a p51 will do much to stop Red winning everytime, but it may make it more fun to fly red. We ned to think of a few things to subtley shift the odds in blues favour. Add a Me262 perhaps :D

Brcn
05-01-2006, 15:23
I agree about keeping the Mk8, its one of the few maps with it and its my favourite plane.

It stays, I haven't changed anything about the planeset for red team.



I think the one thing that could be done to balance the map is to have the Blue base a little higher so that they can intercept quicker. This may shift the balance of the map a bit in order for blue to win sometimes.

Yes, I added another base for the blue team at a higher altitude, but with older planes.


I dont think adding a p51 will do much to stop Red winning everytime, but it may make it more fun to fly red. We ned to think of a few things to subtley shift the odds in blues favour. Add a Me262 perhaps :D

P51 is a nice plane, although i'd like to see it on the map, with the fact that others mentioned regarding its absence for this scenario, we'd better keep it only as a bonus plane.

The final changes are already done, so we could give it a try this way. Still everything is open for discussion :)

bokatar
05-01-2006, 15:56
what about red fighter/bombers, high alt. base again or moved?

F4 or A4 is no match for those P38s or 47s.. are they still at the higher base?

Brcn
05-01-2006, 21:07
Yes they are still at the higher base.

What we are also trying to emphasis in this mission are the difficulties the Luftwaffe had at that time, that's why i added only the inferior planes. If noone flies those (30 % of the blue team flying them is more than enough IMO), then we will consider another change. As far as I understood from the posts, the majority here is trying to balance the gameplay without losing too much from historical facts.

Sorry for the delay in uploading, I didnt have time today to do it. But it will be ready in a couple of minutes :)

Xiola
06-01-2006, 03:47
Well, I was totally hammered by the blue team on this map today, i seems the new base for the blues really helps.

I was having a bad session on all maps when we played this one tho and it needs further testing. Maybe look into havein the 109G2 always at the top base and not just as a bonus.

Looks promising so far tho.

NS-IceFire
06-01-2006, 03:53
I think we don't need to be 100% historically accurate, we need to balance the gameplay. After all this is a game, and it needs to be enjoyable. In some scenarios being 100% historically accurate is more than enough to provide the best gameplay, but sometimes we need to make a couple of changes regarding the historical facts, like adding a plane that wasn't actually there or removing some AAA etc.
I do agree...but the goal should be to be historical and then when not historical, being as close as possible to being historical. The Mark VIII example...a Mark IX would be the better choice as its more historical than the Mark VIII...although this would be lost on most...my little historically oriented mind would scream in terror :)

But trust me when I say this server does much better than most for being historically oriented. It doesn't have to be 100%...infact it probably shouldn't be...but an attempt is good and UK-D does that well.

Brcn
06-01-2006, 12:05
Thanks for the feedback.

There are some further changes I think we should discuss:

1. Keeping G-2 at the higher base, not only as bonus.
2. As destroying the planes is the only way for the blue team to win this map, we can either decrease the plane count that the red team has or add Heinkels and some static a/c. I am not sure which one will be better.
3. The 88m I added to the target area is not as effective as i thought it will. Perhaps I can change it with the sniper 40 mm flak, but I don't want do discourage bombing, as at least 40% of the red team fly bombers in this mission.

stanford
06-01-2006, 14:33
I think keeping the G2 as a full time high base resident is a good idea - at least to test it.

As for static aircraft, there'd have to be a lot of them - 2 x 2000kg bombs do a lot of damage plus they're very easy to strafe.

Brcn
06-01-2006, 14:59
2 x 2000 issue can easily be solved if we don't add the H-6. H-2 has better performance. We can put the static plane site deep inside the red territory, with a couple aaa along the way, so it will be a problem to get there.

Brcn
06-01-2006, 21:51
Thanks for your great ideas.


You don't need to include Heinkels to get planes on the ground destroyed. The 110 carries up to 1200kg and the German fighters can always pick a 500 kg bomb, along with the guns they have they can make short work of static airplanes.

The reason I want to see a Heinkel is because i like to fly it :D I am rather being selfish here, I know, and I will not add them if there is anyone against them.


If you include additional static planes (which I think is good) I'd recommend you do it at the Spits or even a third red base, as it would somewhat spoil the fun for the blue bombers to be greeted by very heavy AAA or alternativly for the red bombers to get airborn with half a dozen blue fighters above their heads. Spit is better equipped to deal with that situation. That's just my two cents.

I was thinking to add the static planes to the base that has the spitfires. I don't want ot add another base for red, as it would split the red forces into three.


I thought I had fixed that long ago, but I still see Soviet B-24 at the high red airfield...if you happen to have the time to change that, please do. :o


It will be done with the next upload of the map.

Thanks

Brcn
06-01-2006, 23:31
Hi,

The following changes are done:

1. Added G-2 to the higher base as standard.
2. Removed F-4.
3. Added He 111 H2 to the higher base.
4. Added static planes (many) to the lower alt. red base.
5. Added 2 .50 AA to the same base.
6. Corrected the Russian marking on the static planes.
7. Adjusted the briefing for the blue side.

I hope you enjoy it!

bokatar
07-01-2006, 00:28
Sounds like you did a great job there Brcn.. Haven't played yet but i'm sure it's better now.

Keep up the good work and take it easy. We don't want to lose you like JtD, gone nuts listening complaints and trying to satisfy everyone.. :D

Xiola
07-01-2006, 02:06
Great job you are doing Bcrn, thanks!

Yellow 2
07-01-2006, 10:12
Briefing For Blue Team
Good afternoon! The US Air Force continues to attack our infrastructure and industry in daylight. Radar has indicated that today's target is the ball bearing factory in Schweinfurt, the city in C2. Of course this factory is immensely important to our war effort, it must be protected. Shoot down any bomber in the area!

Briefing for Red Team
Today's target is Schweinfurt, the city in C2. Most of the German ball bearings are manufactured there in two separate industrial complexes. Both of them need to be destroyed. Fighters are supposed to escort the bombers as far as possible, while fighter bombers may attack the AAA in C3. Good luck!

Map: Online4Summer
Weather: Good
Clouds: 1500m
Time: 17:30

Available Planes For Blue Team:
Bf-109G-2
Bf-109G-6
Bf-110G-2
Fw-190A-4
Fw-190A-5

Available Planes For Red Team:
SpitfireMkVbLF
SpitfireMkVbLFCLP
SpitfireMkVIII
SpitfireMkIXc
SpitfireMkIXcCLP
A-20G
B-25J-1NA
P-38J
P-47D-10
P-47D-22
B-17F
B-24J-100-CF

Further Information For Blue Team
Blue has to defend the city effectively as there are many capable bombers and fighter/bombers in the Red team arsenal. There are many wagons hidden in the buildings in the city of Schweinfurt (Soldatenkovo), C2. They are in the northwest part of the city. There are also some cars in the town at C3 (Shubinino), but they are not important as mission objectives, the Red team needs to destroy the wagons only. The AAA located there can give the Blue team an early warning of approaching enemy aircraft.

Further Information For Red Team
The ground targets which need to be destroyed in order to win this map are located in the northwest part of the city of Schweinfurt (Soldatenkovo). The Red team has to destroy at least 100 targets there, but with the bombers and fighter/bombers in their arsenal it won't be a hard task. There is not much AAA there, only a couple of 20 mm guns.


Notes:
This map is called if no team wins Objective_Prokhorovka, Objective_ProkhorovkaBlue, ObjectiveProkhorovkaRed.

If Red team wins this map, Objective_Finlandred is called. If Blue team wins this map, Objective_Belgorodblue is called. If there is no winner, the next map will be Objective_Burma43.


Bcn I've not highlighted the alterations on this one, it may make it easier to cut and paste. If you prefer I can highlight the alterations, whatever is best for you! Cheers :)

I've now seen your latest message and I will confine myself to the briefings for the Blue and Red teams. I hadn't realised the purpose of the other information being provided :o

stanford
07-01-2006, 15:15
I managed to get my G2 to the red bomber base when only one bomber had taken off.. easy pickings. Maybe too easy...

Also, i got the G2 to 6000m in under 3 mins, which seems a bit excessive.

Grey_Mouser
07-01-2006, 16:18
haven't flown that map...but if G2's are reaching 6000 meters that fast...the map will totally revert the other way...I hope not, but I have to play it first.

Next thing will be starting Spitfires at altitude to combat the G2's...then Fw's to combat the Spitfires.

IMHO...airstarts and high altitude starts should be used to balance gameplay when one side has an inferior plane, or give slow climbing aircraft a bump so that people can enjoy flying them more while being competitive, or to encourage the use of seldom used aircraft.

Dive bombers, medium bombers with bombsights, planes like the Jug or Bf110 are ones to consider giving a boost to....not fast climbing planes that are already very competitive...map will unbalance.

If only there was a way to start everyone at 30,000 ft and work from there!