Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: "Blood in the Skies" Teaser Event

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Croatia
    Posts
    7,248

    "Blood in the Skies" Teaser Event

    Tip and the SYN guys started the ball rolling, here are details of the first BOS Dedicated Mission.

    DBS is in charge of the bomber flights (and whole LW side), for more details please see this thread:

    http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/...-teaser-event/

    Fighter and bomber slots are still available. So far we have 6 reserved bomber slots.


    Anyone else here interested in joining us? 19:00h UK time this Sunday. BOS public TS.
    Last edited by T}{OR; 06-05-2015 at 11:26.
    ... my foldable "Hog Pen"

  2. #2
    airdoc is offline Sergeant Major More Posts Than Postman Pat
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Greece
    Posts
    773
    I 'll be there.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    156
    Count me in.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Ruhr Valley
    Posts
    950
    Me too.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Croatia
    Posts
    7,248
    Looks like slots are filling out rapidly. We could definitely use more bomber pilots and must have more escorts for this not to turn into a slaughter house.

    Hoping that steveiy and Fox confirm their attendance.
    ... my foldable "Hog Pen"

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Leeds UK
    Posts
    664
    Sorry guys i cant make it this sunday, work is crazy at the moment and we are having to work 7 days a week,

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    156
    @Tip: We should have guessed it from the mission name - it was a complete bloodshed.
    Although we devised an improved plan with lazy climbing circle deep within our own territory, no bomber reached the target. The last one was destroyed about 5 seconds before the drop.

    Other than that, it was a good stress test of the game and a lesson for the future missions - too few spawn slots (with fighters spawning on the bomber base), horrible lags (and laggs) - server admins need to look more into the settings like net speed, etc.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Croatia
    Posts
    7,248
    The game and our knowledge of the game is still immature for missions like this. The plane balance was way in favor of the VVS guys from the start, especially considering how ineffective gunners are in this sim compared to what we are used to in 1946. Factor in skill level of the pilots we flew against and you can see why this turned into a one way mission.

    Skin DL is an open question, some say that it doesn't work, i.e. that if only you have the skin no one else will see it and it doesn't strain the server. While on the other hand skin drawing is a problem most obvious when looking at the nearby plane. It takes about half a second for a skin to draw when you look at the plane near you. Look away, and back at the plane again - skin drawing problem.

    Then there are network settings. 14th Mega Mission with 80 pilots back in 2009. failed simply because certain individuals recommended we lower the netspeed settings for the sake of less strain on the server. While it was complete opposite what we should have done (we now use netspeed=40000). I have a hunch client side network settings should be experimented with.

    @ Tip: can we block out skin use on the server side? I would like to do a test where we eliminate all the variables. Stock skins (not even unlocked ones) and experimenting with network settings. Then have as many planes as possible in the same spot in the sky to find out what works and what doesn't.
    Last edited by T}{OR; 11-05-2015 at 13:39.
    ... my foldable "Hog Pen"

  9. #9
    airdoc is offline Sergeant Major More Posts Than Postman Pat
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Greece
    Posts
    773
    Yes, yesterday's test mission showed that BOS is still immature and has a long way to go before it becomes as immersive as IL-1946 for large-scale missions.

    Even if lag is eliminated, i think that bombers at a significant disadvantage due to them being very vulnerable and gunners largely ineffective.

    I am not sure how many fighters attacked us, but i think that a formation of 7 Heinkels shouldn't go down in 2 minutes. I think that we only managed to damage one fighter. Aero's Heinkel was brought down by a collision with another one (presumably due to the lag). We were complete sitting ducks up there.

    It was one of the heaviest massacres I 've witnessed all these years.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    6,804
    Quote Originally Posted by airdoc View Post
    I am not sure how many fighters attacked us, but i think that a formation of 7 Heinkels shouldn't go down in 2 minutes. I think that we only managed to damage one fighter. Aero's Heinkel was brought down by a collision with another one (presumably due to the lag). We were complete sitting ducks up there.

    It was one of the heaviest massacres I 've witnessed all these years.
    As a complete bystander and no part in all of this I can only comment that isn't that precisely what an average outcome from a daylight bombing mission during WW2 would look like?

  11. #11
    airdoc is offline Sergeant Major More Posts Than Postman Pat
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Greece
    Posts
    773
    I don't know Finn. It felt as if it took one pass from a Yak or a LaGG to shoot down a Heinkel and the combined firepower of 28 gunners was weak at best.

    If in reality 7 bombers could go down in 2 minutes like that, then BOS is quite realistic. But shouldn't it be like 30%-50% casualties in a formation ?(as opposed to 100%?)

    This takes away the motive to fly bombers in BOS. I mean, 2 Yaks could take down the whole formation. All they have to do is 4 passes each and that's it (and it's not like they are shooting 30mm shells) . It's a show stopper

  12. #12
    Tx_Tip is offline Captain More Posts Than Postman Pat
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    1,352
    Saw the results on BOS forum and just now looking here.

    In short the answer is yes to limiting skins and adjusting the net speeds server side.

    We can run a test with the same mission that you guys ran Sunday or just make a quick one with just bases so there is nothing else being CPU'd by the server on Friday. And then begin to load it up. The main thing is we need a substantial number of players for a baseline. I don't think any server had that many He-111s in close proximity with that number of fighters so you were definitely in uncharted waters.

    Haas is giving the mission to Habu's French squad as well so they can do testing. They have like 35 players IIRC.
    I can get the Mission from one of you guys through the FileZilla server. Just zip up the 6 Files from Sunday's Mission. Should be in your Data/Multiplayer/Dogfight Folder or I can get it from Haas.

    In any event this was a good first effort into the unknown on BOS MP limits.
    And THOR we will certainly get you into the Server admin loop when I get back.
    Tip

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Croatia
    Posts
    7,248
    This just came in:

    Quote Originally Posted by SYN_Jedders
    Ok guys the problem was a conflict in the startup.cfg and the mission.sds file limiting upload and download. Issue is resolved and ready for next run. I will let others decide when it will be. For now the mission is running tonite with the same password

    Sent using Tapatalk.


    EDIT: About that gunner inefficiency, I would draw any conclusions yet. Who says they didn't have hard time shooting back with that lag as well, be it AI or now. It was down to the client side. And I did not have my most useful gunner, the top one.
    Last edited by T}{OR; 11-05-2015 at 20:32.
    ... my foldable "Hog Pen"

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Ruhr Valley
    Posts
    950
    Flying Finn, I think you are right on this one. Heinkels were a turkey shoot for Hurricanes in the BOB and even B 17 stood no chance when unescorted. I once saw a documentary where Ju 88 pilot pointed out that the plane's defensive armament only served as tranquilizer for the crew and had no real combat value.

    The problem with this mission was, that the enemy knew where we were going, and that there were only to possible targets in close proximity. Thus the best tactic for the defending side was to stay above the target and wait for us. The contrails also made sure they would not miss us. Perhaps we should have descended in order to speed up and loose the contrails 2 or 3 grids before the target.

    I think multiple take off fields and multiple possible targets will give bombers a bigger chance to survive and will diminish the lag due to dispersion of planes. I expect formations of maximal 6 or even 9 planes flying in close vincinity to be lag free even with altered bandwidth settings. But I will be happily proven wrong.
    Last edited by El_Marta; 11-05-2015 at 20:43.

  15. #15
    airdoc is offline Sergeant Major More Posts Than Postman Pat
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Greece
    Posts
    773
    Ok, I see that this can evolve to a thread like the "visibility issue" in DCS.

    Is it how it is supposed to be or not? You can read accounts almost about anything, but it all comes down to quantifying how much vulnerability aircraft should have and how accurate gunners should be.
    It is very hard to provide such information based on historical facts and put them in a sim. The argument that frequently comes up in DCS "it's how it is IRL" is something that I have grown weary of.

    I 'd be happy to have the sim as close to reality as possible; but then again, if this means that flying in a bomber would make an excellent target practice for any enemy plane, then it kills all the fun, and eventually will deter all bomber pilots from the game.

    Guys, I 'm trying to be optimistic here and hope that it won't be a turkey shoot each and every time. Because if it is, eventually we 'll lose the desire to play BOS, unless we are under significant fighter protection.
    The next few missions will tell.

    PS : Marta, in 99% of missions we have flown enemy fighters knew where the targets were and flew over them. This one was no different. I haven't watched the track to see how many fighters attacked us, etc, but it seemed way too fast . As i already mentioned above, I can hardly remember another mission in so many years in which we were obliterated so quickly. It was as if flying in formation was absolutely useless as a defensive tactic.

    We 'll see....

  16. #16
    airdoc is offline Sergeant Major More Posts Than Postman Pat
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Greece
    Posts
    773
    Quote Originally Posted by T}{OR View Post
    This just came in:
    EDIT: About that gunner inefficiency, I would draw any conclusions yet. Who says they didn't have hard time shooting back with that lag as well, be it AI or now. It was down to the client side. And I did not have my most useful gunner, the top one.
    Maybe we can perform a similar test. Have 5-6 Heinkels in close formation and check the results when a single fighter attacks. We could even try this on our server between us.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Croatia
    Posts
    7,248
    TBH I don't think we went down so fast, nor that I think He-111s were sitting ducks in BoB. Yes, they were weak but only when flown outside of the formation. After BoB is another story... As far as B-17 goes the majority of 8th AF losses were bombers that were knocked out of the formation. And anything over 10% causality rate was considered a no go back then. Yes there are occasions where the whole B-17 squadron got wiped out, but on the worst days losses weren't higher than 15-20% from the whole bomber stream / total groups that flew raids. If someone has info on BoB and He-111 loss rates I am eager to hear it.

    With the exception of the Red flight, we didn't have a formation. Not on our standards at least and what was required for a mission with such odds (hats off to everyone who joined us for their quick learning and performance). With my top gunner out, I was down to 50% effective firepower (lets face it, the nose and waist gunners are there just for show in He-111). He-111 unlike B-17, has many blind spots. Most obvious was exploited in the first head on pass - 2 OC level. Your guys were no where near you Airdoc, and even after I was hit I was able to stay with you for almost 2 more minutes before my wing gave way to the fire. Sim who was flying my left wing did an excellent job but was still too far out for our standards. Even in IL2:1946 we were decimated when flying B-17Gs in much larger numbers. We did not have the group cohesion required for to even have a chance to survive it.

    The mission was set up so that if we wanted to win, we should have then used non historical tactics. Having bandits attacking us from altitude of 9km seemed more unrealistic than the fact we got shot down. We tried to fly this mission as if we were flying B-17s. IMHO for a future reference I would limit the fighters and all fights to historical altitudes. Or if we can expect something like that just hit the deck and fly beneath them.

    ~20 fighters vs 8 bombers. C'mon, is the end result so surprising?

    In the end, I had lots of fun and I don't mind getting shot down. As long as it isn't on every mission.


    Quote Originally Posted by airdoc View Post
    Maybe we can perform a similar test. Have 5-6 Heinkels in close formation and check the results when a single fighter attacks. We could even try this on our server between us.
    Definitely.


    EDIT: He-111 wasn't anything special in IL21946 either. For some proper action we need Ju-88 and its speed. I recon in BOM scenarios we will stand a much better chance.
    Last edited by T}{OR; 12-05-2015 at 08:54.
    ... my foldable "Hog Pen"

  18. #18
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    4
    Hey guys, I hope every one is good and not too bloodied after sunday. A lot of good points here I hope we will have more success in the future with the game itself and the mission set up!! Speaking of the future I'm eager to get back up in the skies with yal. Can u point me in the direction of the info for the next bos meet up! I'm starting to have all kinds of ideas about missions and training we could do. I'm also interested in setting up some of my own missions with ai enemy fighters ....for practice

    Sweet speak soon

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Croatia
    Posts
    7,248
    Good to have you here Aero. DBS hangar is this way:

    http://www.battle-fields.com/commsce...-Mission-dates

    Tip, our man behind BFs BOS server is AWOL until the following weekend, and I am afraid I will be to. Until then, the rest of the guys meet on Fridays for BOS and Sundays for everything else and BOS or DCS (not so much recently).
    Last edited by T}{OR; 12-05-2015 at 08:54.
    ... my foldable "Hog Pen"

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •