Sorry to whoever it was

[Papa_K]

I hate it when it happens to me, and I went and did it...the infamous KILL STEAL!!!

Last night; the map was early Pacific -- Midway. I was on the Japanese side. At the time, we had a mess-o-Zeroes near Midway, swarming anything that left via the direct route to our carriers. I was cruising along at 3500, watching the carnage and checking for any high incoming, when I saw a lone fighter below me heading out from the fight with nobody on him. Didn't see any smoke, so I rolled in on him. He appeared to stall it trying to turn into me, and did a nice flat spin. I put a few rounds into him. He died. Immediately, I got the "Why'd you do that?" My response at the time wasn't the best, well thought out, or even good -- driven by being recent, and more blatant, victim of this same phenomenon x 2 ...and that's no excuse.

So why'd I do it? I wasn't sure the guy was fatally damaged, or even damaged at all. He appeared to be spitting out unmolested. How could I shoot at an enemy in a stall, in a spin? Easy. More times than not, I regret it when I don't -- they recover and fly on home or rejoin the fight.

Anyway, sorry to the FA-er who apparently should have gotten that one, and for the response I gave at the time. (If it was real life, I'd owe you a beer, and I'd talk to the bean counters to get you credit for that one.)

Papa_K

[Yum_Yum]

I think if the damage is not obviouse and or you have not witnessed anyone causeing it, it's ok to shoot first and worrie about fair play later .

Some players "Stall and Fall" in an attempt to get away and then recover at a lower altitude, If an attacker is alert and anticipates this ..the stalling plane makes a better target and the end result is a quicker death .

Cya!

[Skinny]

Not my idea of a kill steal. Shooting at an enemy spinning is what you should do. Shooting at burning planes with only one wing and no pilot, is what you shouldn't do.

[Kaster]

I dont shot to planes which are:

On fire
No wing
No engine

If he is in stall i wait until he crash.

Else i shot down that plane

[bokatar]

It would be better if u do not shoot planes that are already damaged and currently spinning, especially at low alt. Otherwise you decide either it would be a kill steal..

[Yum_Yum]

Papa_K wrote:
I saw a lone fighter below me heading out from the fight with nobody on him. Didn't see any smoke, so I rolled in on him. He appeared to stall it trying to turn into me, and did a nice flat spin. I put a few rounds into him. He died

bokatar wrote:
It would be better if u do not shoot planes that are already damaged and currently spinning, especially at low alt. Otherwise you decide either it would be a kill steal..

I think the enemy plane was undamaged in the view of the attacker

[Kaster]

Or maybe he was talking to somebody else.

[bokatar]

Yea i was not referring to that occasion, those are just my thoughts about kill stealing..

[Yum_Yum]

I was refering to the topic which started the thread

If you dont know if an enemy plane is damaged, and have not seen it getting damaged, then it is OK to assume it is not damaged, shoot first and think about it later, it is not kill stealing


Cya!

[JtD]

Whats the problem with kill stealing anyway? I know I won the fight, so if anybody else goes after it - who cares? There are plenty of new targets around.

I can recall that I got upset exactly once about a steal, but I think I was more upset about the fact this move was so typical for this very regular user. Someone with more than 200 hours and 800 kills shouldn't do that, imho.

[Scrappy_D]

I know this is a very contensious issue and I've had loads of kills 'stolen' and have no doubt stolen other peoples kills .... but isnt the idea to play as a team?


If one guy shoots a bandit but the bandit runs for home and he cant finish off the kill then surely if someone on your team can catch him and finish him off then thats not kill stealing but in fact team play? I.e. Bombers for example .. more often than not it takes 2 or 3 fighters to down big bombers etc.


Normally when we are using TeamSpeak and a team member is shooting a plane and I'm with him on his six (or visa-versa) and he over shoots the bandit, he will ask me to shoot the bandit before the bandit gets on the teamates six etc....


~S~

[norrismcwhirter]

Hi,

Ah, the old kill steal emotive chestnut.

People are right - teamwork is most important and so what if someone hits a plane that is damaged?

But, there are often instances where someone deliberately goes after a critically damaged plane as they know it will be an easy target. Why? From the teamwork point of view, that plane is very likely out of the battle and will limp home..and will contribute nothing towards the objective or to shooting down any of your teammates. In fact, it's best to let it limp away as they are out of the battle for longer than if someone finished them off and they respawned. The only plus point is if you get a pilot kill as this may contribute to your side winning the map.

Kill stealing annoys me when someone does one of the following:
a. Shoots up a burning plane that you have set alight and which is not going to make it home.
b. Shoots up a plane you have obviously pilot killed because there was a pilot kill message.
c. Shoots up a plane with no engine running.
d. Shoots up a plane that has had a structural failure.

It annoys me because I won't shoot at planes that are in these states. Much the same way as shooting planes on take off and landing annoys me because I won't do it.

The other annoyance is that, while they are going after a plane you have put out of the battle, they are no longer contributing to the team effort in terms of covering 6's, helping out or similar.

Still, if we thought of DF as realistic. people should shoot at whatever they can; pilots did it in real life all the time.

Cheers,
Norris

[Skinny]

I mostly agree, but 2 things nevertheless:

>. Shoots up a plane you have obviously pilot killed because there was a pilot
>kill message.

This can be hard to see. With 30 players, you get kill messages all the time, and its easy to miss them. Even if you saw it, how do you know it referred to that specific plane ? If its not going down in a strange constant arc, chances are the pilot wasn't dead, he just didn't see you. You could find me "kill stealing" that way unintentionally. I'm not going to shoot a warning shot first, and see if he reacts well, at least no deliberatly LOL.

Further more, shooting at a damaged plane can help the objective. Letting him escape and land will not reduce the number of planes and pilots of the oposing party. Of course that doesn't apply to a plane on fire, one wing, etc..